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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: MissPrints on November 15, 2012, 06:14:53 PM

Title: Ident Help Please
Post by: MissPrints on November 15, 2012, 06:14:53 PM
Hello~

I have a pair(one is broken so it's a shelf piece) of 19th Century 16'' X 7''(round) glass vases. Blue ground with a woman raised in relief(like a very large cameo).

I know next to nothing about antique artistic glass.

Let me begin by saying that until I read MOSER ARTISTIC GLASS(Baldwin) I would have had no idea about Miss Blue, the vase.  The Blue pair and additional glass pieces  belonged to my great grandmother. I hold a letter from my great grandfather on Carlsbad/ Moser stationery, dated 1889, which, unfortunately, does not speak about glass but about matters back in Chicago.

Miss Blue, the unbroken vase  has a partial label(shown) which I cannot make. Either a H, K, or R + L.[period]+whatever is missing. VERY small paper label, perhaps 1'' in length. Black ink on buff or toned paper.

Reading the Baldwin book(I do have a 29'' Moser --which I, unceremoniously, have always called The Root Beer Vase-- c. 1889, vase on a base.  Each of those two pieces carries a  label(double eagles Ludwig Moser + 613 in gilt paint, for what I suppose could be the specific decorator?).  It was The Root Beer which caused me to purchase the book. I am like Gretal in the forest following bread crumbs for Miss Blue.

I confess that now my curiosity has the better of me.

N.B. the links below take you to my own offsite website-nothing for sale there, no spam, no robot to harvest anything, no spies: nothing. I am the only one ''there''.



http://www.kiowamoon.com/silver/kgregory.jpg


http://www.kiowamoon.com/silver/kgregory2.jpg

IFF I am comprehending correctly what Baldwin wrote, then there is a possibility that the blue vase was either retailed or created and retailed by Moser. Maker of the glass, if the vase dates to c. 1889, and if Bohemian glass, could be one of many Bohemian glassworks. A puzzle.

The Blue glass vase is substantial(sandwiched?) and heavy. Round glass gilt feet.

My appraiser wrote : on blue glass etched a Victorian woman in white, abstract darker lines form patterns and flowers are found on verso.  She ID-ed it as ''Mary Gregory'' but the appraiser had a wide variety of items to consider:  no one can be an expert on everything; I've done some subsequent reading about MG works, and  I now believe that the term Mary Gregory , often, denotes a style--just as Kleenex has become a generic term for tissue products by other manufacturers.

I would appreciate any guidance anyone could lend.

Is Miss Blue Moser?
Is Miss Blue Mary Gregory?
Is miss Blue made by an unknown-and the label relates to a retailer?

Thank you for your time!
MissPrints
15 No 2012  10:10 a.m. Pacific time

Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: Lustrousstone on November 15, 2012, 07:43:52 PM
Welcome to the board. I think we need a picture of a whole vase, a base shot and a close-up of the woman, who is almost certainly enamelled and not etched. I'm not sure your appraiser offered anything useful, as the lines are in the glass not on it and Mary Gregory is indeed a style. The label of course could be a retail label.

It would be much more useful if you would use the attach facility for pictures please. That way they remain in the thread as a reference source.
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: MissPrints on November 15, 2012, 10:03:05 PM
Welcome to the board. I think we need a picture of a whole vase, a base shot and a close-up of the woman, who is almost certainly enamelled and not etched. I'm not sure your appraiser offered anything useful, as the lines are in the glass not on it and Mary Gregory is indeed a style. The label of course could be a retail label.

It would be much more useful if you would use the attach facility for pictures please. That way they remain in the thread as a reference source.

Thank you for your prompt reply.  Better photos coming~ those photos were taken several months ago and exceed the site's total 125 KB size restriction, even after editing.

 In future I'll be happy to embed the photos. 

Meanwhile, I'll take additional photos.
BEST!

MissPrints

Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: MissPrints on November 16, 2012, 12:17:15 AM
Okay~ my photos continue to be too large. I surrender to the inevitable and am not trying to be recalcitrant(I don't want to wear out my welcome).

Until I can successfully downsize my photos to fit the forum, I'm stuck. I shoot at 2M which is significantly lower resolution than for listing photos, and I downsized them -- but! they are still too large, as the Forum software advised just before it refused my attachments and almost blew a fuse.

One photo is included of the damaged area of the damaged vase since it, likely, holds the clue to whatever the ''white'' is.  Enamel? Paint? Snow?

http://www.kiowamoon.com/silver/kbluelady22.jpg

http://www.kiowamoon.com/silver/kbluelady23.jpg


http://www.kiowamoon.com/silver/kbluelady24.jpg

http://www.kiowamoon.com/silver/kbluelady25.jpg

Thank you,

MissPrints


Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: Anne on November 16, 2012, 12:31:09 AM
Hi MissPrints and welcome to the board. I can recommend a neat online tool for getting your pics to the size needed: it took a 3Mb image down to 47kb without any problems. http://www.imageoptimizer.net/Home.aspx on the left of the page you'll see an Optimise Now panel, with a box for you to select the image you want to resize - then set the level to Normal, and the max. size to 700 in both the boxes below. Then click Optimise Now and wait a wee while (usually less than a minute) whilst the site processes your pic. Then you get a download button for the smaller file, which you can save to your computer and attach to a post here. Hope this helps. :)
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: flying free on November 16, 2012, 12:50:10 AM
Hi, I could be wrong (and may well be proved to be so :) ) but looking through Truitt's collectible Bohemian Glass 1880-1940 on page 92, there are a number of vases  that appear to be the same 'blanks' as yours i.e. what appears to be blue cased crackle glass.  They are all white enamelled with 'Mary Gregory' type scenes of children.  However the reason I stopped at that page was because above them are some cranberry vases enamelled with a 'Mary Gregory' style woman that appear to have some similarities in 'look' and style with the ladies on your vases, or at least they did to me as they caught my eye, causing me to look more closely at the make up of the blue vases below them.  The only thing I would say is that the leafy bowers on your vases seem to be gilded rather than white enamel and the decoration on the ladies vases all seems to be white enamel.

These vases were refined/decorated by, if I have understood it correctly, Muhlhaus.  The write up says 'Julius Muhlhaus' began refining glass in Novy Bor in 1867.  The firm ... Muhlhaus specialised in the decoration of high quality blanks made by the best glass makers- Harrach, Meyr's Neffe and Loetz.  In ...'  It then goes on to discuss post 1897 when he died and his son's inherited the firm.  So I guess they may have also bought blanks from Moser although I don't know enough about the history of either firm to know if that might be true.

I don't know who your blanks were made by but the book features a pair of cylinder style vases , not the same as yours in shape exactly, but similar , however they do not have the little gilded feet.  I have seen those feet I think, on Harrach vases but again I guess there may have been other makers who used that feature.
So, not very helpful probably, except to say that blanks that seem to be the same construction as your vases appear on page 92 of that book.  And I suppose what I'm saying is that there might be a possibility your vases were decorated by Muhlhaus and possibly made by Harrach.  There are three sets of vases with the internal 'crackle' in blue, the first is dated c1900 the second (cylinder pair) dated c 1895 and the last dated c1895.

Hopefully someone else will be along soon who may be able to help more conclusively :)
m
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: MissPrints on November 16, 2012, 01:27:11 AM
This is a Two-For-One Thank You note:

Dear Anne~

Thank you for the optimizer~I have given it a go and shall add my work(such as it is)  to this post just to confirm that I got it right. Or, wrong. 

This is THE most delightful Forum~ the wealth of information and  the kindness of the posters sparkles as does the glass about which they are so passionate.  Absolutely TOPS! would not be an understatement

* * * *

Dear FLYING~

My Graciousness-you are my idol. The Truitt book is purchased(I only learned of it yesterday by reading Baldwin) but your information's timeliness is significant.  I am up against a deadline, found this forum in a last ditch attempt to solve Miss Blue's puzzle: I  suspected I was being worked by another~and I was. You saved me.

Mother always raved about Miss Blue(she was rawther more reserved in her enthusiasm for the cracked sister vase)~ I only wish that I could tell her now  that she was correct all along. Unfortunately, she is no longer taking phone calls since she went cloud-ward some years ago.

With a great amount of gratitude to you both,

MissPrints
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: MissPrints on November 16, 2012, 01:28:05 AM
Eyes up:
<falls off her office chair>
Great Grief!
WE  did it!
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: MissPrints on November 16, 2012, 01:39:39 AM
Dear Flying~ 

There are three Truitt books~ I assume you intend
COLLECTIBLE BOHEMIAN Glass 1880 - 1940.
Published 1995 ~that book has a griffin(reminds me of Whiting's Arabesque)
on the front board.  Price $47.00(USD)

Else I bot the incorrect one...which is OKAY since I can always find room for another book
on my shelf.

Best,

MissPrints
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: Lustrousstone on November 16, 2012, 07:28:12 AM
That's the one.
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: flying free on November 16, 2012, 08:28:16 AM
please excuse my apostrophe error
s/b  sons not son's  ;D
Glad this has helped with your dilemma but we still need to find the maker of the glass blank and have the enameller confirmed by someone.  I'll keep looking but I've not seen any on the net at all  :-\

Aha, having gone back and had another look without my latenight eyes on, I can see that the third vase on that page 92 has a bower that is gilded!  so another clue that the vases could have been enamelled and gilded by Muhlhaus  :)  That vase is dated c1895.  I feel very confident the maker of those blanks  is most likely the same maker as yours. 
m.
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: MissPrints on November 16, 2012, 06:22:09 PM
Good Morning~

Lustrous-- Thank you.

FLYING--thanks again. I, impatiently, wait for the delivery of Truitt.


This is probably not the proper thread to ask this question but I cannot resist:
I am conFUSSed(no surprise there). Assuming a pre-1895 Moser piece of colored glass. Where did the colouration come from? The sandwich process?

Example: the gilt rim of Mr. Root Beer is 1/4 inch/ apprx 6mm wide. Does the width signal the  ''sandwich'' process? If so that would explain his heft. I attached a photo of its rim--for the first time in the multiple times I have peered into the vase, I see a regular pattern of slight protuberances ''inside'' the gilt rim. 

Puzzle: the vase portion is 20''. Was the body assembled from various ''pieces''=and account for the regular pattern of protuberances/joinery? If not, then is the blank the result of one mighty big blow.


I have now reread Baldwin three times in three nights: I'm a slow learner/ need to pound information into my noggin. Like the mechanical man who wears Leiderhosen and pounds his metal hammer on the hour as part of a glockenspiel.  I am fascinated by glass.  World history has always been an interest but I never considered its effect, say, on the craft of glass.   


From what I have gleaned from Baldwin: (1) Mr. Root Beer should be Moser since it has labels and gilt numerals(for the decorator) and the design is consistent with what I believe is the time of its purchase--but the glass(if c. 1889 is correct) would have been made by another glassworks since Moser made no glass of his own until 1895+.

If only I spoke German so I could pronounce/retain the district and town names. Alas, I do not. The grandparents were multilingual but I studied math instead.


Add to that: I have 6 goblets which--now that I'm a ''72 hour old expert'' on artistry glass-- I can describe as-- they  MAY be Italian clear blanks decorated  (with the family crest) by Moser-- or not.  They are light in weight and the enamel is matte(two of Baldwin's markers) with bright gilt surrounds and motto--but those markers are not, necessarily,  definitive proof.

There is such a wealth of information on the site that my answer likely resides here which makes this post redundant but the initial excitement which has grabbed ahold of me has turned into a quest. I am convinced that whatever I thought I knew may be rubbish. On the bright side, I can learn.

Added for fun:  One 14'' Moser piece(it's in a family photo --1885-1895-- so I'm certain of its approximate date) is broken beyond anything other than a shelf piece. Turquoise, frilly edged,  with numerals 8402, gilt bees[different type from the insects of the Root Beer]and  lovely colored fruit. 

I'm in California and, last month,  sought, online, someone to restore the piece. I've taken it apart and cleaned the margins but stopped there.  I found a man who does glass restoration in Los Angeles. His name is Goldberg.  I telephoned his office and listened to his phone message. A heavy, guttural, older,  accented (as if English was not his first language) voice. I have not yet spoken with him. 

When I first read the factory name GOLDBERG (Novy Bor)  my eyes widened: would it not be wild! if the restoration man is distantly related to the Bohemian factory.


Many thanks to all for your repeated kindnesses.

MissPrints
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: flying free on November 16, 2012, 06:42:40 PM
Hi MissPrints
can you please start a new thread for your other vase?  otherwise confusion reigns when trying to discuss the item in question if there is more than one piece on a thread.

I'm not sure how your blue lady vases were done, but it could be they were blown as first layer blue, then a layer of white which was then crackled before being cased in blue again.  Someone who may have more knowledge may be able to decipher it more correctly.

Does your root beer vase have applied acorns on it btw?
Also if you have the Baldwin book may I ask you to look something up for me please (I don't have the book  ::) )   - I recently bought a very large piece of glass and I just wondered whether any of the decoration or indeed the piece might be in that book?  I've sent an email to Moser to ask, but in the meantime if you have time to look I would be grateful.  Many thanks if you have time to look.
the link to my piece is here

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,50218.msg283705.html#msg283705
m
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: MissPrints on November 16, 2012, 10:17:44 PM
Afternoon, FLYING~

After a fast count, Mr. Root Beer's vase carries 64 acorns of two sizes--in one instance I noted that there was a pair of acorns.  The base carries 46 of the smaller guys. The acorn bodies are darkened: if silver then, tarnished or as originally enameled.  Note to self: Find loupe.

Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: chopin-liszt on November 17, 2012, 10:03:20 AM
hello MissPrints - and welcome.  ;D
To tell if it's silver, rub it gently with the ball of your thumb. If it's silver, the tarnish will blacken your skin and it should start to shine a bit.
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: MissPrints on November 18, 2012, 01:29:11 AM
Chopin-Liszt~ You have paired two of my favorite composers, the poets of the piano keyboard.

Thanks for the hint. I've rubbed 10 of them but the only thing that my thumb shows(now) is a dent.

Some of the acorn ''nutmeat'' portions are a gun-meal silvery grey with black--or a dark blue-- burning through from beneath.  Difficult to describe accurately: there are random ''lines'' of dark where the silver is not.

Some ''nutmeats'' are silver colored and look fine. Each acorn has a chased/hatched gilt topper.

Today it's raining in CA which makes this a holiday of sorts.  CA is a desert with golf courses. When the sun comes out tomorrow (I sound like ANNIE) I'll take some high resolution photos in natural light in an attempt to discern what's going on in those finishes. I'll post the results.

Since the piece is old it's also possible what  I'm seeing is the effect of the passage of time: smoke from fireplaces(non smoking family homeS) , atmospheric gunk buildup or ???

'Tis a mystery and that's an actual fact.

BEST!

MissPrints



Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: flying free on November 21, 2012, 07:18:46 PM
Missprints, could you try and upload your photos to the board please as otherwise the information is lost once the photos become unavailable to view?
Many thanks.
I found this in the meantime
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=bj6Wb6AfJxYC&pg=PA524&lpg=PA524&dq=muhlhaus+enamel&source=bl&ots=tERfn5V6r9&sig=T0k5h23p6lXR0CNUa4_lSJJrO5E&hl=en&sa=X&ei=FCitUK_nC6aZ0QXKtYG4Dg&ved=0CFoQ6AEwCDgK#v=onepage&q=muhlhaus%20enamel&f=false
m
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: MissPrints on November 22, 2012, 04:00:05 AM
Good Evening, Flying Free~

Thank you! for that additional reference.  I am aware you own Bohemian Glass 1880-1940 Truitt. (Copyright  1995~no other dates). In the Truitt book the pair which is similar( that you originally referenced/pointed me to)  to those in the Antique Trader, Truitt  ''valued'' at $200-250. I like your find's prices better, she said with a giggle. When Ms. Blue is delivered to me after Thanksgiving then I'll put her in a separate thread.

The Truitt Bohemian Glass book is well worth the views~Thanks for that hint,  also.

I confess I played hooky, took the day off, and went to see Spielberg's LINCOLN.
Now it's dark but you've been so helpful that I gave the photos a go with the flash.

Four pictures:  taken with a flash and/or manipulated for contrast.

The first photo is one acorn on a small turquoise vase--(dare I say, decorated by Moser?) That   acorn is provided because it's another view of the same banding effect. Date of acquisition believed to be of the same time frame as the Root Beer. A cutie. No label. Cylindrical, 5 1/4'' in height <--for another day but useful, here.

The final three photos are similar views of Mr. Root Beer's acorns.

It's chilly tonight, the glass is cold, my hands,  warm: I didn't remove the vase from the box.

Until the weather warms up a bit, I am reluctant to take the Root Beer outside~ but I shall (crosses her heart) make a better attempt at acorn photos in shaded sunlight.

Happy Thanksgiving(if it applies)~ ~ else, enjoy your Thursday~

BEST!

MissPrints

Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: Frank on November 22, 2012, 12:41:46 PM
Hi,

Your piece is cased not 'sandwiched' and was made by gathering clear glass and blowing a little. This was then marvered to pick up blue enamels (coloured ground glass), then the piece would be cooled to crack the layer of blue enamel  and blown a bit more the blue splitting along the cracks as it expanded. After that another gather of clear glass and then blown to final shape in a mould.

It looks as if it could be cameo. Although the type of enameling by building up layers of enamel to simulate cameo is described in various places but I have never handled it. It needs to be looked at closely, particularly the flake at the crack to be certain it is enamel not cameo. Could you add a close up of that flaked area and also one of the shaded 'ground'. It is certainly a very finely made piece. Bigger the better, so host on your site.

It is not Mary Gregory glass, that was a marketing term for an American style of enameled glass introduced after 1900 that is copying the original Bohemian style of your vase. Mary Gregory glass is a very poor descendant of yours!

The uneven areas you mention on the other piece are an artifact of mould blowing, I presume the exterior surface is not flat. Irregular surface causes the interior surface to reflect the surface as the glass tries to spread at a regular thickness.
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: chopin-liszt on November 22, 2012, 01:08:12 PM
I feel strongly that the lady on the crackle vase isn't "Mary Gregory" too. The quality of the modelling on your vase is vastly superior to any MG!

Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: flying free on November 22, 2012, 01:27:39 PM
I don't think it is clear then blue , then crackled then clear again.  I think it is possibly clear, then white, then crackled, then cased in a transparent blue glass which makes the crackle look blue... I think :-\

Whichever way, they are gorgeous.
And Happy Thanksgiving to you - we don't celebrate Thanksgiving here in the UK but thank you all the same for your wishes :)
m
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: Frank on November 22, 2012, 05:21:19 PM
Looks blue on inside too. so I don't think so. That would also have an odd effect when it was blown into the mould... but can say for sure.

Interesting nosing around I see that someone has circulated a story that most of the 'Mary Gregory' glasses were made by Hahn & Co in Gablonz... no trace of where that comes fromal thopugh it is on Andrew Linehams site and most descriptions are straight copies of that. His site does have quite a few older examples but pictures are too small to be of any use.

Hahn & Co described themselves as refinery + bead, button and jewellery makers and thus likely to have been mainly an outworkers company. Cannot find much info on them at all.
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: flying free on November 22, 2012, 05:35:02 PM
oh yes you're right, but I think blue on the inside then cased in white then crackled, then cased in blue ?  which makes the crackle look slightly paler than the blue glass cracks in between?
m
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: Frank on November 22, 2012, 11:12:14 PM
not  really possible imho.
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: flying free on November 22, 2012, 11:19:30 PM
ok, but why then would the cracks in between the patches show as darker blue?  If it was clear in the inside layer, then blue then crackled then clear on the outside layer then wouldn't the cracks show as clear?  as  the crackle would only affect the middle layer and would then leave clear glass in between each crackle? 
Sorry, I really have no idea how glass actually works, so I'm not just questioning arbitrarily but trying to learn something  :)
m
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: MissPrints on November 22, 2012, 11:45:45 PM
Waving a white flag since I've been counseled not to combine items in one thread,  for one last time,  I beg your indulgence.


Below, I've attached two views of the Root Beer's acorns in shaded sunlight + one view of the entire base in sunlight  filtering through a window. Question: is Amber or amberine the correct descriptor for its colour? It appears more honey colored, to my eye.  Base is 8 '' in height and 6'' in diameter. Ludwig Moser label.

When you click this photo a magnifying glass will appear, click-- and the photo will enlarge.


A link to the vase on base: http://www.kiowamoon.com/silver/krball.jpg


Frank~

Thank you! NOW I ''get it'' and am able to visualize how the Misses Blue were made.  As a bonus, I learned a new word: marver. Until I came to this forum last week,  I knew nothing with any degree of confidence about antique glass(except when I was young that I was not allowed to touch it.). I find its history fascinating and the search for which maker attaches to what piece is a treasure hunt. 

Search as I had earlier,  I found zip about the ''how'' of the process.

Now, one by one, thanks to all in the Forum who have contributed, the puzzle pieces begin to fit into place.   


As I wrote earlier, when the second MissBlue is back in my hands then I'll begin its own thread.  I find that my photos, taken last week, of broken Ms. Blue's ground are not revelatory(insufficient resolution).  I will take additional photos of her in the sun this week when I go to ''visit'' her in storage.

In the meanwhile,  two differently angled views of the chip: these do not enlarge(I wonder why but I'm no computer whiz kid)

http://www.kiowamoon.com/silver/kmsblue3.jpg


http://www.kiowamoon.com/silver/kmsblue4.jpg



I've prepared for everyone, as a thank you,  my traditional holiday dessert.  You will find at your place a Royal Crown Derby Imari plate on which rests a slice of great grandmother's English plum pudding (flames now extinguished) which is topped with a square of hard sauce which is topped  with a warmed Brandy sauce. Cigars at the table are welcome.

BEST,

MissPrints
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: flying free on November 22, 2012, 11:54:39 PM
Wowser!!! Rootbeer is amber and truly MAGNIFICENT :o
I think that is the most beautiful decorative vase I've ever seen....thanks for sharing  :) and for the pudding of course.
m
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: Frank on November 23, 2012, 12:07:21 AM

In the meanwhile,  two differently angled views of the chip: these do not enlarge(I wonder why but I'm no computer whiz kid)

http://www.kiowamoon.com/silver/kmsblue3.jpg
http://www.kiowamoon.com/silver/kmsblue4.jpg

Best to take at highest camera res and email to me (envelope at left of post)
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: MissPrints on November 23, 2012, 01:10:21 AM
Good Evening, Frank~

Shall email once I have photos in-hand.

I do have one question--OK, I confess: the next question.

You wrote: The uneven areas you mention on the other piece are an artifact of mould blowing, I presume the exterior surface is not flat. Irregular surface causes the interior surface to reflect the surface as the glass tries to spread at a regular thickness.



Embedded below, two photos of the rim of the Root Beer Moser. 

Photo #1 is a happy accident that the camera provided when it washed out the gilt rim and provided the pattern.  I estimate that the mould lines(if that's what they are, she said somewhat confidently) extend from the rim and that ribbing continues into the throat. Total length:  approximately 1 1/2''( 3.5 cm). 

From the rim downward it 1/2 inch, straight, next a hump or ripple  which extends 1''.
Thence ''south''  the form of the vase is smooth.

Photo #2 
The light play the pattern created.


The vase and base each carry the Ludwig Moser double-eagle round paper labels which are a match to that in Baldwin.

Time of the piece's creation and of its purchase are unknown:  I no longer have any confidence that GGFather's letter,  writ on Carlsbad Ludwig's stationery, necessarily, casts any light on the Root Beer's timing of purchase. 
I did(pre -GMB).
I do not. 

Perhaps, the family simply went to Carlsbad for the waters since GGM frequently suffered the ''vapors''.

Moser did not manufacture his own glass until 1895+.  My family, conceivably, may have purchased the vase in America. Time, unknown. They were frequent travelers to Europe-- as far distant as Jerusalem(GGF was a Mount Joie Chicago Knight Templar).

In sum: all I can actually know with any confidence is that Mr. Root Beer was decorated by Moser if the mould is pre 1895. If that's the case, then who made the mould? Does that distinctive indented ribbing provide any clue?

I read another's listing on ebray who flat-out stated that ALL Moser pieces were signed either with a diamond point signature or enameled in gold --and I forget the third.  High priced piece of glass, it is. For one thing I always rear back whenever anyone avers  ''always'' since there are exceptions. That seller's contention continued  that lacking a Moser signature of the type they described then a piece was fake.  Ah huh. My thought was ''not so fast''.

What say you-- or what say the Room?

[I hope I didn't just start WWIII with a favored but unknown to me GMB poster, whoever they may be--but I am curious).

I  pull on my pith helmet and await word from the Front,

MissPrints




Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: Frank on November 24, 2012, 02:07:02 PM
You will never find who made the glass. Glass production was probably at they time still nomadic, going where the trees were. Not sure when glassworks switched to gas and other fuels in Bohemia but must have been going on at that time r they would have no trees left! Takes a lot of trees to run a glassworks on them.

Thanks for the detailed pics of blue vase. I guess it must be the layer built enamel decoration and quite amazing it is too... but it could still imho be cameo. Quality is of the absolute highest and I only wished I could handle such a piece you are very lucky indeed. Try and find other examples of such quality on the web and outside a museum... not easy.
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: flying free on November 29, 2012, 06:43:04 PM
this vase is id'd as Harrach.  It's a stretched shape so a little difficult to be entirely sure whether the blank is the same construction as  the enamelled Mulhaus vases in question at the beginning of this thread, but it looks very similar to me - id'd as Harrach
http://www.madforglass.es/Harrach/Harrach_1442b.html

m
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: Frank on November 29, 2012, 09:35:55 PM
looks a good match...
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: flying free on November 29, 2012, 09:56:48 PM
If so then possibly Marney's vases were made by Harrach as blanks and decorated by Muhlhaus?
m
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: MissPrints on November 29, 2012, 11:37:58 PM
Good Morning/Afternoon/Evening(depending on a reader's GMT zone)

Once Miss Blue is returned here, I'll start her own thread.

Note: those glorious darker veins to the glass, in my vase's case(PI), are actually CLEAR.

The darker blue crackling is an optical collusion: whether the viewer is close or removed from the vase (save, with your nose pressed to the glass) the eye, actually, is looking through the clear glass veins to the blue of the interior of the vase.  The eye and brain decide that there is a darker blue present.   

The darker blue colouration appears, literally, to be present--- but it's magic. 
It is, truly, not present.
I looked.
Found a white rabbit instead.
Got carrots?

BEST!

Marney





Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: flying free on November 29, 2012, 11:51:32 PM
Marney I think your vase is probably Harrach-made for the blank as per the link I gave (if the id is correct ... and that site generally has good id's ) and enamelled by Muhlhaus (reference Truitt's given earlier in the thread)

With regard how the vase was made,
are you saying the interior layer of the vase is actually blue?  or is it clear then as Frank said, blue internal crackle layer, then clear again, therefore if you look through the vase, because the crackle interior layer  is blue then it appears you are seeing blue through the 'clear' parts of the crackle gaps as it were. 
Sorry to be pedantic, but I'm curious to know what technique they did use and it sounds as though Frank was right at the beginning  :)

m

Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: MissPrints on November 30, 2012, 01:36:03 AM
Hello, flying free~

I'm under two flags here and it's my fault(it usually is).
The Moderator requested that I not mix two vases in one thread.
I was new and the doubling up sorta happened, although I gave it a hearty shove.


It would probably be wisdom (and avoid my getting the boot) if we waited until the good vase arrives and then discuss.

Short version: yes, Frank was correct.  Cased.

You wrote: because the crackle interior layer  is blue then it appears you are seeing blue through the 'clear' parts of the crackle gaps as it were. 

Yes, Madam. Precisely.

It  is the white lady that is the puzzle which tantalizes: enameling or cameo.
A puzzle which,  hopefully,  we may solve in the new Blue thread.

Attached-- a view into the vase(and here I go again).  The new thread will include photos taken in blocked sunlight versus these flash photos taken inside a building.





Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: flying free on November 30, 2012, 08:14:15 AM
Your vases are enamelled Marney, not cameo cut in my opinion
and it would be good if someone could come along and confirm they are Harrach production as then you will have a current id for your vases as above.

and sorry, I was about to say I'm confused but I'm not  confused.  This thread is the thread for the blue vases  :)
m
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: chopin-liszt on November 30, 2012, 11:51:07 AM
Marney - you will not get booted off for "minor" thing every newbie does - we were all newbies once.  :-*
Besides - you have absolutely stunning glass, a curiosity and tenatiousness about researching it we all appreciate and a lovely sense of humour - I'm so glad you have found us, what joy you have brought us in the short time you've been here - thank-you.
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: MissPrints on December 01, 2012, 01:31:24 AM
Most kind words, Chopin-Liszt.  Thank you.

I am mindful that the posters here have sufficient business to occupy their time and that you choose to share with me is stunning.  It's as if I have been invited into a Curator's Museum and I am allowed to ask questions and receive answers that would take me a lifetime to discover--and even then could I trust my own discovery work? No. As I  have, happily, learned.


This Board is an utter joy~ and if there's a giggle, now and then, found in my words then it matches my usual style.

Miss GOOD (or, Great, as I prefer to think on her) Blue Vase will arrive next week.
She almost slipped through my fingers but I pulled her back in the nick of time.
Which didn't please a particular party but they should have dealt with me in a direct fashion.

I will list another item for an ID. A gilt encrusted glass basket--but(whispering a promise to the Moderator) I will create its own thread.

Marney






Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: chopin-liszt on December 01, 2012, 03:38:49 PM
What are your thoughts on Flying-free's current (and very likely to be correct) attribution?
That the glass was created by Harrach and decorated by Muhlhaus.
I agree fully with f-f that it has been enamelled, I think cameo is highly unkliely - the main body is shiney smooth - it really doesn't look as if it has been fully encased in opaque white enamel at some time!
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: MissPrints on December 01, 2012, 10:30:41 PM
Being the 2 week wonder expert on glass, let me say that I believe that  f-f's Harrach/Mulhaus is correct.


Changing topics:
In case I cannot find a thread to link to this auction:

BONHAMS (LA) auction
3 December 2012 --10:00 a.m. (Pacific time)
Fine European Furniture and Decorative Arts
Auction 20076
 
http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/20076/

A few elegant glass items for the GMB library sideboard~

Lot 379  pair of lamps

Lot 354  pair of jardinieres(FAB!)

Lot 396  pair of Continental glass ewers(to die for)

Lot 421  pair Bohemian glass decanters, late  19th Century

If there's any money left over in the site's piggy bank, you could add this
drop-dead Bronze of a horse and jockey: Lot 25. The tie-down has been broken and is wrapped around one rein(that oddball flying piece) . The patina is lovely, if a bit rubbed. The horse is being pulled-up--he is not trotting. A horse does not trot with its mouth open since the rider is pulling on the bit.  Duh.

Marney





Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: flying free on January 11, 2013, 07:15:53 PM
Marney, if you have time, please could you upload your pictures of your blue crackle vase with white enamelled lady on, directly to the board?
Much appreciated, and thank you.
m
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: MissPrints on January 30, 2013, 10:17:07 PM
<waving happily at flying free)

AHA! Now, I find my thread...

I just added a new thread for ELIZABETH, the sister vase.

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,51209.msg290285.html#msg290285

Marney
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: flying free on January 30, 2013, 10:36:09 PM
I've replied on the other thread :) and thank you again.
m
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: flying free on September 17, 2013, 10:26:26 AM
For the record this decor is by Harrach and is known as 'Malachit'  In this instance it would be 'blau Malachit'.
'Malachit' does not refer to the colour of the stone but to the crackle effect in the stone, and was produced by Harrach in varying colours.
The source is
'From Neuwelt to the Whole World' Jan Mergl page 173
Various colours are shown in the book but the one on page 173 is green crackle on a black glass and describes the Malachit decor as follows:
'Execution: schwarz Malachit. .... Malachite glass first appeared in the Harrach production around 1855.  However, naming it after the precious stone malachite did not refer to the colour of the glass, since the glassworks produced other colour variations of this type of glass with names such as weiss Malachit and blau Malachit.  The name thus refers more to the structure of the stone of whih crackled glass is reminiscent.  ...'
m
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: MissPrints on September 17, 2013, 01:18:38 PM
Thank you!, M, for once again providing answers/confirmations. I truly do appreciate your kindness.  I'd bet that the green/black Malachit presentation is a stunner.

''Malachit'' is logical for the green (malachite (Eng.) =semi-precious gemstone)~ it's interesting that they determined to add blau = blue~ to Malachit to also describe a vase such as mine.  The gemstone most certainly can have that crackle effect although the fissures more generally appear in random order rather than in a ''German precision'' pattern as represented by my vase, for instance.

BEST!

Marney


 
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: flying free on September 17, 2013, 01:43:30 PM
Hi Marney
There is also a weiss Malachit and a pale brown version in the book.  The decor is definitely 'Malachit' and would only refer to the crackle effect rather than being the colour green.

The large pale brown vase in the book was registered as 'Email Malachit' as it is enamelled (Email) It has lots of white enamel but also other colours on it and is not the same type of white enamel as your vase.  It was shown at the Vienna World's Fair in 1873.  The white version in the book seems to date to 1862.

The green dates to 1860 and is on a black Hyalith glass base, with the green opaline overlaid and then crackled and then cased in clear.
The others are the same as yours on a clear base with the opaline glass overlaid and crackled then cased in clear.
The blau Malachit versions under Muhlhaus in Truitt's date variously to 1895 to 1900 according to Truitts so it seems they were producing this decor over a longish period.  There is no blue in the Harrach book that I could see.

m
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: MissPrints on September 18, 2013, 12:30:18 PM
Thank you again, M. You always bring much to the table.


Speaking of tables and Malachite, years later I remember this :  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ermit%C3%A1%C5%BE.jpg

Across the room(larger than a football field)  from that beauty was another Malachite piece of like size -- an ovoid ''bowl'' on a pedestal similar to a serving piece that you would see on Katharine's banquet table.

When sister #1  stood--with right hand , palm up, raised to shoulder level-- sufficiently distant from this second piece and sister #2  shot the proper camera angle  then the finished photograph made it appear as if sister #1 was carrying the malachite fruit presentation dish  in the matter of a waiter.  In truth,  sister #1 wished to port both pieces into her suitcase and take them back home except, due to their sizes, that would have been a task impossible. The Hermitage is a treasure trove of history and fabulous art.
Title: Re: Ident Help Please
Post by: flying free on September 18, 2013, 03:43:39 PM
Wow!  that is one amazing piece of art - thank you for sharing :)
And I'm immensely envious you have been to the Hermitage.  I spend a LOT of time browsing their glass collection online as they own a stunning collection of very interesting glass pieces.
m