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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: Tony G on December 08, 2012, 11:55:11 PM

Title: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: Tony G on December 08, 2012, 11:55:11 PM
Hi All,
         the Ysart weight that originally appeared at Boldon auctions and then on e-bay(but withdrawn), is back on e-bay. The seller did previously list it as a possible fake after input from some members but is now listing it as Ysart confirmed by 2 "experts". Has this been confirmed by KevH or other reputable reference from this site and I have missed it ?

I can understand if the signature cane has been distorted but it still looks doubtful on the, admitedly very small, photo.

Thanks, in anticipation, for your guidance.
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: KevinH on December 09, 2012, 02:42:46 AM
Original GMB thread: Got a bad feeling about this, real or fake Paul Ysart? (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,48113.msg271083.html#msg271083)

Latest eBay listing (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Paul-Ysart-paper-weight-/251196684021?pt=UK_Art_Glass&hash=item3a7c7d36f5). I cannot see where it says, "confirmed by 2 "experts", but nevertheless I can confirm that I have not told anyone that the weight in question is by Paul Ysart.
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: Tony G on December 09, 2012, 10:52:38 AM
Hi Kev,
           sorry. Forgot to say that I asked a question of the seller and the reply was that "two experts had confirmed it as genuine". I would have thought that if you were really confidant, you would use large multiple pictures rather than one very small picture.

Cheers,

PS Thanks for the confirmation that one of our main experts hadn't confirmed this weight as genuine.
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: Frank on December 09, 2012, 03:34:06 PM
I just messaged an eBay seller

Well done... You have now joined the long list of eBay con-artists.
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: Nick77 on December 09, 2012, 05:42:57 PM
I messaged the seller yesterday to say it was still a  I thought it was the same seller as acouple of weeks ago who told me they were going to contact Boldon auctions for a refund. Actually it seems to be a different seller although the photo seems the same?

I got the same verified by 2 experts message.
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: Nick77 on December 09, 2012, 05:59:22 PM
Just checked both accounts in Middlesex so the same seller using the same photo.
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: SophieB on December 09, 2012, 06:41:40 PM
Hi everyone,

I contacted the seller also and referred him to the earlier thread started by Nick77. However, he replied that he was not in the business of peddling fakes and that the flower weight had been confirmed as genuine Paul Ysart by two experts. We have done all we can. At least, no GMB member will be taken in by this item. Let's hope that whoever buys it, knows it for what it is, a good example of a PY fake.

SophieB
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: Nick77 on December 09, 2012, 07:06:21 PM
Just asked HER the names of these experts any why she thought it necessary to hide behind a different account this time.
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: tropdevin on December 09, 2012, 07:40:16 PM
***

I've just fired off a message asking why she thinks this well known fake is genuine. I await her reply....

Alan
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: Frank on December 10, 2012, 01:36:44 PM
I got the same reply as Sophie. But yes those miniature images give the game away really, but I guess someone could still get suckered.
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: tropdevin on December 10, 2012, 01:47:59 PM
***

Me too - I got the same response "I do not believe or agree this paper weight is fake because it was assessed as genuine last week by two independent experts." 

I have asked the seller to tell me who these independent experts are, as I will probably know them....I doubt I will get a reply.

Alan
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: Nick77 on December 10, 2012, 01:56:24 PM
No reply to me asking the same question either. When originally posted under her other user name she first reliisted as a fake then withdrew it from sale. In messages to me after I explained my purchase and refund of the same weight and showing her the links to Frank and Kevin's sites showing it was a fake she was going to contact the auction house to request a refund. I offered further info if needed.

I'm guessing she was fobbed off by Boldon auctions so has decided to relist it.

Incidentally Frank if my images on the first thread are of use for the fakes section of your website please feel free to use them, or I can send the originals.

Nick
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: Frank on December 10, 2012, 02:08:30 PM
Yes please.

Notice Item specifics - Blown Glass, 1930s/40s  :-X
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: RAY on December 10, 2012, 05:05:49 PM
just had some photos of the weight and a bigger photo of the PY cane .. as we all know its defo the fake one lol  .. so why cant they use the bigger photos on ebay? because they know its a fake
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: Nick77 on December 11, 2012, 06:31:18 PM
Frank, did you mean you'll use the images posted on here or you'd like the originals?
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: KevinH on December 11, 2012, 11:06:37 PM
I have moderated this thread to remove speculative and general comments about the possible maker(s) of the fake py weights. Such comments do not belong in this thread and in any event it is unwise to open discussions on that subject in a public message board without absolute certainty of facts.
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: pooleandpaperweights on December 12, 2012, 09:27:28 AM
Going by past fake PY weights isn't it worth about 200 - 250 anyway?  I would of thought there was a small profit in in anyway, so I just don't see why she doesn't list it as a fake?
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: bigbri on December 12, 2012, 10:20:34 AM
hi kev.
its very odd to say the least that on a thread about a fake py paperweight that the site doesnt want mention of the fact that those who are to blame are those that made them not the poor buyers and dealers who dont know the difference and who dont deserved to be slated by those who do know the difference and who mostly know the culprits.
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: chopin-liszt on December 12, 2012, 12:06:05 PM
The whole point is that the stuff mentioned comes under Scottish law - this means documentary evidence is required before any speculations can be discussed.
This does not exist.
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: mjr on December 12, 2012, 12:47:05 PM
hi kev.
its very odd to say the least that on a thread about a fake py paperweight that the site doesnt want mention of the fact that those who are to blame are those that made them not the poor buyers and dealers who dont know the difference and who dont deserved to be slated by those who do know the difference and who mostly know the culprits.
Many people have ideas about who is responsible, and rumours circulate.  However without proof, then any comment on here is speculative and potentially libellous.   And whilst many buyers and dealers may have acquired such weights thinking they were genuine, the main topic of this thread is the current seller who, if they did not know previously, certainly now know the history of this weight and despite having it pointed out to them, continue to persevere with their erroneous description.   
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: bigbri on December 12, 2012, 04:35:22 PM
If calling a quite possibly innocent seller who doesnt know better on here a "con artist" is ok then what's wrong with me saying the con artists are the makers of the fakes and the dealers profiting and still profiting from the fakes as the real culprits.seems like one rule for some and not others.
I would also think calling someone a con artist is most probably libellous as the seller has now changed the listing and listed it correctly so where is the con.......do you have any proof the seller is a con artist??
No you haven't so my point stands your slating the wrong peeps most of the time and I stand by my statement.
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: chopin-liszt on December 12, 2012, 04:42:15 PM
Basically, it's a Scottish Law thing and we don't want the gmb sued.
Well, I don't.
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: bigbri on December 12, 2012, 04:57:17 PM
Sue I don't want anyone sued esp the board I enjoy logging in etc every day seeing if I can help and things,its great fun but I don't think it's fair slating someone who in all probability doesn't know better and then to bombarded them with statements from those who do isn't right and then to share the I've emailed him this and I've emailed him that and he said that etc etc well it don't seem right.we have all bought duffers and sometimes it's takes a while to accept it doesn't it.the so called con artist has now described it properly so all you peeps who don't make mistakes can relax its all sorted now.
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: chopin-liszt on December 12, 2012, 05:02:17 PM
I never called the seller a con-artist - I'm just noseying in on the thread, bigbri - it's just the aspect of Scottish Law I'm pointing out. It's different to English Law.
I believe there is every possibility the seller was convinced by the "experts" they consulted - and why should they believe folk who write to them on ebay rather than what they believe to be experts, have said?
I'm pleased the listing has been corrected, and I hope they do very well with it.
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: RAY on December 12, 2012, 05:18:25 PM
looks likes it's back on again in the style of PY
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: KevinH on December 12, 2012, 05:35:34 PM
If calling a quite possibly innocent seller who doesnt know better on here a "con artist" is ok ...
When I saw Frank's comment in the earlier post, I wondered whether to remove it as a breach of board policy. However, his comment was, I believe, a statement of what he had said in his email to the seller and therefore the seller was in a position to respond.

Perhaps I should have been more rigid in my interpretation of what deserves to be moderated.
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: chopin-liszt on December 12, 2012, 05:37:09 PM
For the sake of the board, better to err on the side of caution, Kev.  :)
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: flyboy90 on December 13, 2012, 03:55:34 PM
In the early 90,s the backer of the Harland works told me that a quantity of PY canes were stolen and never recovered.
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: Frank on December 13, 2012, 04:14:14 PM
In the early 90,s the backer of the Harland works told me that a quantity of PY canes were stolen and never recovered.

Not quite true there were some stolen but all were recovered by police according to Colin Terris. But in any case the way the canes are made in the fakes differs from those made by Paul.
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: Frank on December 13, 2012, 06:53:03 PM
What is most irritating about the saga is that the story has been well documented and at the core this was based on Paul Ysart's own assertion that he did not make the weights.
That some have an interest in casting doubts on the original research based on assumptions is ignoring that most basic fact, in the market there are plenty who will assert that something is other than it seems and as we have seen will swing backwards and forwards as in the case of this weight. The have only one interest and that is to make a sale and they would rather base that sale on 'a name' than on the truth. That is utterly wrong - but I guess we cannot change the world.
Title: Re: Ysart flower previously doubted is back on e-bay
Post by: RAY on December 13, 2012, 07:20:28 PM
well it sold for 225