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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => Murano & Italy Glass => Topic started by: BobKegeles on July 24, 2014, 07:23:52 PM

Title: (Italian) Glass terminology etc.
Post by: BobKegeles on July 24, 2014, 07:23:52 PM
Can anyone recommend a good online resource with photos, that can help me understand and differentiate Italian, and/or glass elements?

When I look at definitions I have trouble understanding the differences between murine and cane and millefiori.

Between latticino vs. reticello vs. zanfirico etc.

Is a twisted ribbon a cane? or simply a twisted ribbon. Is a linear stretch/line of translucent color (like what you see in latticino plates and vases) a ribbon, even though it has no distinct edging or depth? 

I see the term "lacy filligrana" yet cannot figure out when it applies.

Is a cane that is a hollow tube (often hollow with a white interior surface and a bright color exterior casing) considered a cane?, or is it simply a "tube"?

It would be lovely if there were a pictorial glossary. Perhaps even a "blown schematic" like you see with machinery, or Ikea furniture instructions, LOL.

For that matter, if calling something bullicante, do I say a paperweight has a "bullicante" or a "bullicante pattern"? As an example, a classic Gentile piece is the "goose in flight" that floats over controlled bubbles, so I can't simply say it's a bullicante paperweight, do I say the goose is floating over a bullicante, or a bullicante pattern, or maybe even a bullicante element or effect.

I'm really trying very hard to not come across as stupid as I actually am, LOL.

Bob
Title: Re: (Italian) Glass terminology etc.
Post by: KevinH on July 25, 2014, 12:41:21 AM
Hi Bob,

I have split out your two questions from the single thread originally in the Paperweights forum.

I will not, for now, make specific comments on some the terms you have mentioned. But for reference, here are three older threads covering the general subject:

Murano glass glossary (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,42872.msg238794.html#msg238794)

Just some glass terms (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,34296.msg185599.html#msg185599)

Awesome website, lots of Corning photos, and a whole lot more (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,23000.msg129734.html#msg129734)
Title: Re: (Italian) Glass terminology etc.
Post by: KevinH on July 25, 2014, 12:49:40 AM
Well, ok, I will say something about ...
Quote
Is a cane that is a hollow tube (often hollow with a white interior surface and a bright color exterior casing) considered a cane?, or is it simply a "tube"?
Yes it is a "cane" if it has been cut as a section from a pulled length of a specific pattern. But some might say it is just a "rod".

As for being hollow, that is very unlikely. Usually, what seems to be a hollow cane is simply a clear glass central section within the cane. However, I do know of one maker who has made truly hollow canes, and successfully set them in the item without collapse and without unduly excessive air bubbles at each end.
Title: Re: (Italian) Glass terminology etc.
Post by: langhaugh on July 25, 2014, 06:30:57 AM
Good questions, Bob. One problem is that there are a few terms used for Murano, and other, glass that are used fairly loosely. My recommendation is to understand the techniques that are used so that you have a clear idea of what is actually happening in the glass-making process. Your question about latticino vs reticello vs zanfirico is a good example. The term latticino is used widely to describe canes that are white, but the term isn't really a Murano term. Reticello is an established technique where a bubble is created in the middle of intersecting canes applied to a blown gather of glass.  Zanfirico is generally the result of rods of glass being  heated, fused together, and the pulled and twisted. I should say I've also e seen narrower definitions of zanfirico.

Two books that have helped me enormously and are very different. One, Murano Glass: Themes and Variations, is by is by a renowned glass writer, Marc Heiremans. The photographs are of very high end Murano glass. The other is Advanced Glassworking Techniques (ISBN 0-96387281-8) by Edward T. Schmid, who is a working glassblower in the Pacific Northwest. The  book has only drawings and looks handwritten, which was off-outting at first, but it contains everything you want to know about glassblowing techniques. And he writes in a straightforward, easy to understand style.

Good luck.

David
Title: Re: (Italian) Glass terminology etc.
Post by: flying free on April 23, 2016, 11:04:52 AM
'Reticello is an established technique where a bubble is created in the middle of intersecting canes applied to a blown gather of glass.'

Is Reticello the same as the 'Vitro di trino' described here in an 1852 book page 13?
http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook/The_Curiosities_of_Industry_and_the_Applied_Sciences_1000690907#17

The description in the book and also in Apsley Pellatt's book of 1849 appears to be identical to what is called Reticello, but in both cases is called Vitro di trino, not Reticello.

also a picture here from the Apsley Pellatt book which shows the little bubble in the centre of each cross thread
http://glassian.org/Making/Curiosities/page113.html

m
Title: Re: (Italian) Glass terminology etc.
Post by: KevinH on April 23, 2016, 01:00:07 PM
M, do you have a copy of An Newman's Illustrated Dictionary of Glass? He gives info on "Vetro a reticello" and also "vetro di trina". (Note the slightly different spelling: "vetro" instead of "vitro" and "trina" instead of "trino".)

In the info for the latter term, he says that a Muranese gentleman, in a Corning Journal of 1975, advised that the term had only a "romantic" origin and is not used in Murano "today" and should be abandoned. Newman also says the (old) term was applied by Pellat to "vetro a reticello".

So yes, it's apparently the same thing, although in the "reticello" description Newman also says there are three types, and the one with bubbles between intersection of filigree is one of the types.

[And I have also added your extra piece of info to your initial post today and I have deleted the "duplicate".]
Title: Re: (Italian) Glass terminology etc.
Post by: flying free on April 23, 2016, 01:14:20 PM
ah, I do indeed have the Newman book but didn't think to check it.

Thanks for explaining this further.  I couldn't find any description of Vitro di trino  on the board but knew I'd seen a description of this technique somewhere on here, so it might be helpful now for anyone else looking for information in the future.

Very slightly disconcerting that terms change over the years.  I can understand why there is confusion regarding various techniques sometimes.

m



Title: Re: (Italian) Glass terminology etc.
Post by: oldglassman on April 23, 2016, 01:50:50 PM
Hi ,
             I can recommend the following book which explains the current terminology for descriptions of filigrana glass,including many photos of antique items and new items that were made to get a better understanding of the production techniques ,it would seem that "vetro di trina" is in fact today described as filigrana a reticello,

the book was written by Kitty Lameris after many many years of research and study,

"A collection of filigrana glass " published by Frides Lameris Art and Antiques  Amsterdam 2012

cheers ,
 Peter.
Title: Re: (Italian) Glass terminology etc.
Post by: flying free on April 23, 2016, 02:16:29 PM
There is a beaker in the book 'GLASSES AND THEIR PORTRAITS The Kees Schoonenberg Collection' from Frides Lameris, which they gave me in September.  It is described as:
'17) Beaker made of vetro a reticello.'

No mention of filigrana in it's title description.  Just simply 'vetro a reticello'.


m
Title: Re: (Italian) Glass terminology etc.
Post by: flying free on April 23, 2016, 02:32:49 PM
and then there is a stirrup cup in another of their books described as you say
'This network decoration, filigrana a reticello, is exceptionally difficult to execute'.

m
Title: Re: (Italian) Glass terminology etc.
Post by: oldglassman on April 23, 2016, 02:54:17 PM
Hi ,
      Filigrana is not as I say , but used in the title of the book ,

 I think !!! filigrana is being more specific than vetro (glass),

http://renvenetian.cmog.org/technique/filigrana ,

Kitty is the one with all the answers and I am sure she would respond well to any enquiry you might make.

cheers ,

Peter.
Title: Re: (Italian) Glass terminology etc.
Post by: flying free on April 23, 2016, 03:09:38 PM
CMoG in the link says
'The Italian term vetro a reticello means “glass with a small network.” It refers to a type of blown glass made with canes organized in a crisscross pattern to form a fine net, which may contain tiny air traps.'

Note, it says may contain tiny air traps.  Therefore I suppose the term reticello refers to the crossed net effect filigrana canes but does not denote that the effect must have the air trap bubbles in order to be defined as reticello.

m
Title: Re: (Italian) Glass terminology etc.
Post by: oldglassman on April 23, 2016, 03:34:05 PM
 Hi,
             Sounds about right to me  ;)

cheers ,

Peter.
Title: Re: (Italian) Glass terminology etc.
Post by: KevinH on April 23, 2016, 04:14:38 PM
m, look at Newman's brief comment of three types for "vetro reticello". Unfortunately, of course, we don't know his sources!

The bubbles only appear when a double layer of filigree, forming a crossed pattern, is thick enough to form an air pocket at the crossover points.