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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => France => Topic started by: chilternhills on June 28, 2016, 12:19:39 PM

Title: Art Deco opalescent bowl - probably not Etling
Post by: chilternhills on June 28, 2016, 12:19:39 PM
I bought this French opalescent bowl yesterday but can't identify it. I have seen it online in a few places but nobody, except one, puts an ID on it. An auction house catalogue said it was Etling, but it doubt it. It has 'Made in France' embossed in the centre. Etling pieces, as far as I recollect, usually say 'Etling' and a catalogue number if marked at all. I have examined the bowl very carefully but can't see any maker's mark. Having said that, I know from experience that sometimes the marks can be extremely hard to spot.

If anyone can help out I would be most appreciative. In any case I am pretty pleased that it cost me just a fiver!

By the way, I found this site with the most gorgeous photos of opalescent glass. The standard of photography is outstanding:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/kingofbananas/sets/72157623123619438/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/kingofbananas/sets/72157623123619438/)

Anton
Title: Re: Art Deco opalescent bowl - probably not Etling
Post by: chopin-liszt on June 28, 2016, 07:48:10 PM
I know the one, I have admired these in reality myself, and while I strongly suspect French, I have nothing but a gut feeling to support that. Not Sabino or Lalique, have you looked at Verlys?
Verlys can be of exceptionally good quality and is often of sculptural depth.
Title: Re: Art Deco opalescent bowl - probably not Etling
Post by: chilternhills on June 28, 2016, 09:05:27 PM
The bowl is not in the McPeek Verlys of France 1935-1937 catalogue.

Sue, your gut feeling that it is French is confirmed by the 'Made in France' mark in the centre of the bowl  :P

It is really good quality: every fine detail is crisp, with no sign of mould marks. And it absolutely perfect. No flea bites at all.
Title: Re: Art Deco opalescent bowl - probably not Etling
Post by: Anne Tique on June 29, 2016, 07:01:10 AM
I've seen and handled these bowls several times too and yes, they're always nicely done.
I've never managed to find out who've made them ... the only thing I can suggest is that the 'Made in France' mark is often related to Choisy-le-Roi.

Title: Re: Art Deco opalescent bowl - probably not Etling
Post by: chilternhills on June 29, 2016, 10:03:14 AM
If it is Choisy-le-Roi then that narrows down the possible makers list and puts Etling back on it again. If it is Etling, the quality of the bowl suggests 1920s since quality went noticeably downhill in the higher catalogue numbers in the 1930s.

I have never been able to find a full catalogue for Etling. It would be a super project for a collector or group of collectors to create one. Currently Isle of Wight Glass Museum has about 30 pieces of Etling in its collection.
Title: Re: Art Deco opalescent bowl - probably not Etling
Post by: Anne Tique on June 29, 2016, 12:14:35 PM
I hope I'm not mixing things up now, because I find it all a bit complicated, and forgive me if I make a mistake because this is just from what I remember, I haven't got any literature here with me ...  glassdesigners/manufacterers who got affected by the war, productions interrupted and moved elsewhere later on etc... headspinning stuff ... from what I understood, correct me if I'm wrong, is that Etling's pieces were produced at Sèvres, absorbed by C-l-R, who had the rights to the name and kept using the trademark. Etling never came back from the war and he had no relatives left to claim anything, as they were all deported. All his moulds were kept over there at Sèvres/ C-l-R, and I don't know how the law worked at that time, but if something wasn't claimed after so many years, I guess you could consider it as yours, which legally  still applies today. However, brands were perhaps already protected at that time, i'm not sure when copyright was introduced in Europe, but obviously they couldn't carry on the brand name, and i guess that's why you can find signed pieces and unsigned ones, The only way to make sure what it is, is to find a signed piece and that would confirm the whole theory, but I haven't come across one yet...
Title: Re: Art Deco opalescent bowl - probably not Etling
Post by: chopin-liszt on June 29, 2016, 12:35:38 PM
 :-[ Doh.
My excuse is I was looking at the glass and thinking about that. I'd read the text, but I have short-term memory problems, and the info. had vanished.  ::)
Title: Re: Art Deco opalescent bowl - probably not Etling
Post by: chilternhills on June 29, 2016, 12:52:39 PM
Could the bowl be made by Hunebelle? This GMB thread seems relevant: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,46359.0.html (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,46359.0.html)

The design of the flowers seems similar to confirmed Hunebelle pieces after a quick Google search.

My understanding is that Edmond Etling was Jewish and he died in a camp during WW2. Very sad. Such an amazing man.
Title: Re: Art Deco opalescent bowl - probably not Etling
Post by: Anne Tique on June 29, 2016, 05:03:30 PM
Personally I couldn't tell you but maybe somebody else can.