Glass Message Board

Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => Bohemia, Czechoslovakia, Czech Republic, Austria => Topic started by: rabugheida on January 13, 2018, 02:01:09 PM

Title: RESEARCH on bohemian glass MOTIFS
Post by: rabugheida on January 13, 2018, 02:01:09 PM
Like any other repeated motif, I believe that the motifs found on 19th century bohemian crystal contain a wealth of information.
Study on these motifs and their hidden meaning could lead us to a richer understand of the culture  in which they originated, and also serve as a method to aid in the identification process.

even more exciting is that according to Kevin, "... but what is lacking for most of us is a research manual detailing all the motifs and their variations over the years!" (For full context of the quote, see,66140.msg369894.html#msg369894)

and according to myself  :)  It couldn't be that you have stags in a forest or buildings in the tropics cut into crystal and passed down through history without them having meaning, instead just as cute little drawings that speak of the tradition of crystal making. 
A stag in the forest could represent nature, and its strong haunches and antlers its strength and virility,  the king of the forest, for example, and a deep respect for him.  A building certainly represents the man-made but no less important endeavor that is architecture.  Perhaps the palm trees make it paradise and the first of these motifs was inspired by an incredible castle  of towers that was the pride of the whole nation or just the imagination of the first person to cut it into a crystal goblet, his own little paradise...
Title: Re: RESEARCH on bohemian glass MOTIFS
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 13, 2018, 05:12:26 PM
I would suspect fashion has as much to do with what is pictured as anything else.
Around the turn of the last century there was a huge interest in the excavation of the Egyptian tombs, and in what is now called "Chinoisery", as influence from the exotic far east became discovered and known.
That's where your palm trees come from. I'm afraid it's not anything more than that.

Hunting scenes might appeal to the rich who indulge in that "passtime".

I think what matters most is the actual quality of the cutting or etching.

Just a few thoughts for your query.
I'm afraid cold-worked glass isn't my area, I like the hot stuff. :)
Title: Re: RESEARCH on bohemian glass MOTIFS
Post by: rabugheida on January 13, 2018, 08:35:32 PM
not anything more than that?!!

let me give you an example...

I picked up an old etched glass vase because of a fascinating little etching of a building on one side.  After some research online I found four other etchings which resembled that building.  They were not exactly the same, but what they all showed in common was two towers, one shorter than the other with a sort of bridge connecting them.  Perhaps it is my architectural education, or just having an open mind but without too much effort I believe that I have identified that building.

Now, if I am correct, this is just not some little fashionable motif , it is a window into the quite rich architectural history of Prague itself.

so you say , some inspired  artist just did a sketch on a glass and some others copied it. 
but what if I tell you that "the lesser town bridge towers"  , depicted in paintings by prominent artists as well, was the gate to the old town of lesser located in modern day Prague.  with further studies, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if this might be the location of the studio which produced that same motif. 

so?    One has to know a little about Prague to understand that a city of such grandeur doesn't just happen by chance .  It clearly denotes a huge sense of civic pride forever cemented into its architecture. 

So If that little scratchy building means Prague itself, isn't that interesting?  Could a comparison of similar motifs tell us things about the times, and also serve as a better method to date a piece?

Anyway, yes an Egyptian revival movement might very well be the inspiration for the "palm trees" But there have been more than one in the history of the decorative arts.  and...I've been to egypt more than once, and I can tell you surely that it isn't known for its palm trees.

I'm not even sure if they are palm trees, as my example doesn't look palmy at all.

Title: Re: RESEARCH on bohemian glass MOTIFS
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 13, 2018, 08:50:48 PM
Buildings depected on things are normally tourist souvenirs.
What is depicted will be whatever sells best at the time.

When the Egyptian and Chinese influence was in full swing in the west, they really did not bother about accuracy, just spectacle.
Architecture isn't my thing, but opera is. Do you know Gilbert and Sullivan's Mikado?
Not exactly how things were run in China. ;D

I was only adding a general comment to your thread.  :)
As I also said, cold-work is not an area that interests me, but I've seen a lot of it in the passing.
Title: Re: RESEARCH on bohemian glass MOTIFS
Post by: rabugheida on January 13, 2018, 09:17:06 PM
interesting your remarks on spectacle...

and wow, could I be looking at the Eiffel tower of bohemia?!!  no one ever told me that before  ;D

not a fan of opera I'm afraid so I have little to offer in that discussion

Anyway, any and all discourse on this topic is valuable to me, so I'm grateful for all input

What I really need to point the way are examples of these motifs, and perhaps even an expert or two, but I don't expect the world

Title: Re: RESEARCH on bohemian glass MOTIFS
Post by: KevinH on January 14, 2018, 12:38:12 AM
Hi rabughedida,

Regarding the quote, in your initial post of this thread, of some text from another thread, please always add quote marks to make it clear what is quoted. Or use the board facility to add a quote box around copied text (via the "Insert Quote" button). I have modified your post to add quote marks and I have also included a link to the post in the other thread as a cross reference.

Cross referencing by links from one thread to another, or even within threads, is very useful where discussions may become quite lengthy. It is also invaluable for ongoing research topics as it can help to clarify the developing ideas without constant re-reading of earlier posts to find the relevant points.
Title: Re: RESEARCH on bohemian glass MOTIFS
Post by: Anne on January 15, 2018, 01:48:17 AM
Some of the motifs on this website might be of use to you in your research. :)
Title: Re: RESEARCH on bohemian glass MOTIFS
Post by: flying free on March 13, 2018, 09:19:45 PM
Anne thank you for the link!  It has eggs on the link.  I am always interested in those and who might have made them  ;D

I might try and find an egg thread and copy your link if that's ok?

Title: Re: RESEARCH on bohemian glass MOTIFS
Post by: Anne on April 20, 2018, 10:09:50 PM
Feel free, m. :)