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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: pattanne on October 06, 2006, 04:23:53 PM

Title: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: pattanne on October 06, 2006, 04:23:53 PM
I recently bought two small Straethern vases from ebay, not realising that they were 3" high. I do have a full size daffodil vase in the same style, stamped on the base.  This vase was bought for my Mom & Dads 40th wedding anniversary in 1986 and has been backward and forward to Australia a few times.  I also have another vase, shaped like a ships decanter which is a thicker glass than the others, no mark on the bottom though. Do they have any value, any help would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks

Pat
Title: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: chopin-liszt on October 08, 2006, 06:15:22 AM
:D :shock: :D

The black and gold Stuart Strathearn bits are by Iestyn Davies, using techniques he learned at Isle of Wight Studio Glass. Michael Harris and William Walker developed these in conjunction with each other, producing the award winning Azurene range.
Title: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: Frank on October 08, 2006, 11:23:28 AM
Also, unmarked ones could be IOW originals, or Tweedsmuir or Caithness or ...

I am currently following a lead on the same technique having been used long before IOW Azurene. It would seem nothing is ever that original. A number of other glassworks also produced similar pieces. Tweedsmuir Glass versions are particularly thick glass, only identifiable by label. I will get some of my examples on the site one day...
Title: Help!!
Post by: pattanne on October 14, 2006, 07:19:09 PM
I have been trying to put a couple of photos on here but for some reason cannot get past the first page, on glass gallery, it would not let me login and eventually I found a message that said I was "currently banned from this site" but how come I have managed to post this message!!!  What have I done?

Pat (the innocent!)
Title: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: archiveIOWSG on October 14, 2006, 09:41:11 PM
Hi
It will be very interesting to see your findings Frank.
Title: Re: Help!!
Post by: Anne on October 15, 2006, 02:46:49 AM
Quote from: "pattanne"
I have been trying to put a couple of photos on here but for some reason cannot get past the first page, on glass gallery, it would not let me login and eventually I found a message that said I was "currently banned from this site" but how come I have managed to post this message!!!  What have I done?

Pat (the innocent!)


Hi Pat, you cannot login to GlassGallery until you have activated your account there. You will have been sent an e-mail with a link to click to activate it: this verifies your e-mail address is valid. Once you've done that you can log in. The ban happens when you try unsuccessfully to log on several times - to protect the Gallery against brute-force attacks it only allows so many tries before you get locked out for a short period of time. It's not a permanent ban so don't worry. :)

If you've not received the e-mail (they sometimes do get lost in cyber-space or caught in badly-setup spam filters) drop me a line directly (see e-mail button below) and I'll activate you manually.
Title: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: Frank on October 16, 2006, 11:10:53 PM
Use of gold foil goes back to 1930's-30's at least e.g. Carlo Scarpa for MVM Cappellin and C. 1929 to 1930. Probably find earler examples too.
Title: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: Frank on October 17, 2006, 11:26:09 AM
Somewhere, over the past year I came across another example of gold foil on black but it eludes me now. It went on backburner mode as I have too many threads active right now and is somewhere in a pile of at least 100 recent documents piled up near my desk :? will keep an eye open for it now.

Meanwhile... looking for some roots, I came across a reference in Skelley - Modern Fine Glass (1937), to a 3rd to 4th century Rhenish glass known as 'fondi d'oro' a-  layer of gold etched and covered in clear glass. I have no more information on that technique though, anybody else.  :?:
Title: Black Glass / Gold vases
Post by: pattanne on October 25, 2006, 06:20:22 PM
Well, I managed to get the photos of my vases saved onto the Glass Gallery, they are on page 6!! I'm a little embarassed that I can't put the link on here  :oops:

The three have a mark with Stuart Straethern on them these are of a thinner glass and the one that is a ships decanter shape is thicker glass and has a crown on the bottom, there must have been a label on there at sometime, but is no longer there.

When we visited Australia in 2002 we visited a shop on the Gold Coast, they had some glassware in blue with the goldleaf on. The shop owner said that the artist that made them studied under a gentleman that worked in the glass houses in the Black Country. How strange to go all that way and find articles like that.

If anyone can let me know anymore about them I would be grateful.

Many thanks

Pat


Moderator: Links added below Pat, (if you look undeneath each image there's a box that says File Information... look down it until you see the line starting URL and copy the link there - it will always end with a dash and a number - then just paste that link into your post here on the board... you don't even need to use the BB code tags to make it show as a link it just happens.)

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3859
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3858
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3857
Title: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: Frank on October 27, 2006, 09:51:51 AM
Hajdamach (British Glass 1800-1914) had the answer to this, not the earlier Rhenish version - which still needs clarification but to a Victorian patent. But as with any book description you need to locate an image that ties in with the investigation and Hajdamach lacked that.

This missing link was turned up by David and is shown below. The example is Paul Raoul de Facheux D'Humy and dates to 1878.

(http://www.debook.com/forum/1878DHumy-vaseexample.jpg)

This clearly relates the D'Humy patent to the styles such as IOW Aurene, Stuart Strathearn's "Ebony & Gold" and similar decoration by many others.

On page 327-8 of Hajdamach is a description of the process patented by D'Humy who traded in London, UK, c1880, as Aurora Glass Co and Vasa Murrhina Glass Co. Very little is known about him - but he gave examples of his work to the British Museum. This ensured their documentation and could well have been seen by the various glassmakers that rediscovered the technique since then.

Does anyone have any colour pictures of this glass in their libraries?

This subject still needs data on the 3rd to 4th century Rhenish 'fondi d'oro' glass for excluding or including it.
Title: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: Frank on October 27, 2006, 11:20:53 AM
It has been suggested I might be ruffling feathers... not the intention. It is interesting to note that D'Humy was himself seen as a copyist, copying the ancients.

The use of metal leaf as a decorative element has now been seen 1870's, 1890's, 1920's, 1930's, 1950's, 1970's and on almost continuously. IOW can possibly be seen as the re-introducers of the technique for the 1970's but their Azurene range also included form as well as decoration and that combination is unique to them.

When you study glass in depth, there are some general trends in design and presentation that define an age but dig deeper and you find elements that are ageless. Art Deco is a clearly defined movement orginating at the Pais exhibition in 1925. Yet it is bringing together many ancient motif's, primarily egyptian. The 1920's also saw the reproduction of other periods in glass but these were not as striking or prolific as that based on the Egyptian motif.

I have found another 1925 design that I am told is 1980's - the records of the past are what really can define 'original' or can they? But that is a debate that is for another thread and another day. Why not now, debate opened at http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,7965.0.html
Title: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: josordoni on October 27, 2006, 11:41:36 AM
Quote from: "Frank"
It has been suggested I might be ruffling feathers...


I am at a loss to see why that is detrimental to the debate?  Surely it is only by ruffling feathers that you get honest comment?

Or am I being naive again?
Title: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: Sue C on October 27, 2006, 12:53:25 PM
in John A Brooks book on glass(1973) a flask  made in Alexandria in the first century ad was composed of clear bands of glass contaianing flecks of gold, and some designers covered a broad spectrum of the arts, Dr Christopher dresser, William Morriss ect
Title: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: Sue C on October 27, 2006, 04:59:40 PM
also when a student makes his own way after studying under a master, is h/she not influenced by his or her teacher? they may say that they are individal , but the teaching is still there, as with everything, what is passed on cannot be individual , it is a amalgam of teacher and student, a pliable mixture of influences , from the teachers  teacher, and the student who becomess the teacher, im sure if you asked Adam if he thought any of his students were influenced by him , he would like to think they were, but also that they had their own ideas of what design should be. ( did any of that make sence?) sue x
Title: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: David E on October 27, 2006, 05:05:39 PM
Totally agree, and surely it is a tribute to the masters skill that his students should carry on the tradition. Perhaps they might even improve or develop the techniques learned, but this is called progress :P
Title: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: Frank on October 27, 2006, 10:04:01 PM
Can we discuss in the cafe thread please  :)

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,7965.0.html
Title: Iestyn Davies Black / Gold Vases
Post by: pattanne on November 03, 2006, 02:08:06 PM
Well at last I think I've managed to attach the pictures of my vases to this post. I have found it fascinating reading all the posts that have been linked to this topic.  Do these have any value at all, I would like to know as I am going to be reviewing my home insurance in the next few weeks.

Thank you for your help so far.

Pat

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3859
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3858
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3857
Title: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: Max on November 03, 2006, 02:27:39 PM
Those pics are very small Pat - almost thumbnail size.  Is there any chance of a bigger photo? Or is it just me that has a problem with viewing them?  :(
Title: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: David E on November 03, 2006, 02:43:05 PM
They are small photos - what did you use to take them Pat?

They need to be reduced from the original camera photo to something like, say, 640x480 or 480x360 (as a rough guide) to make them usable. Increasing the size of these will not help.
Title: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: Frank on November 03, 2006, 02:48:06 PM
Not huge value, say 10 to 50 euros based on size. But certain to grow. Occasionally a couple of people decide to battle it out and they can go higher but they do seem fairly common.
Title: Re: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: David E on December 27, 2006, 08:06:07 PM
Another addition to this debate.

Looking through Lesley Jackson's 20th Century Factory Glass, p.18, I came across a photo of two A.Ve.M vases produced in 1950 that uses exactly the same process.
Title: Re: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: Frank on June 02, 2008, 04:17:02 PM
The d'Humy patent was in 1876 No 4217 and was for gold or any other leaf.
Title: Re: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: johnphilip on June 02, 2008, 04:53:48 PM
We must not confuse gold with aventurine i believe the Clutha vases by Dresser had copper aventurine in.jp
Title: Re: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: Frank on June 02, 2008, 07:04:58 PM
This thread is not about aventurine.
Title: Re: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: johnphilip on June 02, 2008, 07:54:07 PM
No but someone mentioned Dresser glass ie Clutha and on several threads lately people have said one when it was the other. sweet dreams :sleep:
Title: Re: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: Frank on June 05, 2008, 12:52:04 PM
A useful companion to this thread is in Paperweights http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,21451.0.html
Title: Re: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: lyndhurst44 on June 05, 2008, 08:47:28 PM
Hi,
Any one seen one in aubergine before?

Bryn
Title: Re: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: Frank on June 05, 2008, 11:38:31 PM
Is the rim fire polished or cut?
Title: Re: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: lyndhurst44 on June 06, 2008, 08:17:07 AM
Hi Frank
Is the rim fire polished or cut?
The aubergine rim is polished, the black one is cut. :huh:

Bryn
Title: Re: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: Frank on June 06, 2008, 08:27:09 AM
Perhaps it is Tweedsmuir or someone else then, certainly not Stuart Strathearn. Odd that it is such a close match on shape!
Title: Re: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: lyndhurst44 on June 06, 2008, 10:51:08 AM
I agree Frank,
I have had a couple of the Iestyn Davies 005 pattern Ebony and Gold small vases in my possession over the years and they certainly seem to be very similar to the black vase in the picture, in both shape and size, but just like the aubergine vase, it is unsigned.


Bryn
Title: Re: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: aa on June 06, 2008, 01:15:05 PM
Hi Frank
Is the rim fire polished or cut?
The aubergine rim is polished, the black one is cut. :huh:

Bryn

Presumably the aubergine one has been fire-polished and the black one has had its rim ground down and polished, but it isn't clear whether this was done as a result of it being blown and cracked off, or whether because it has been repaired, which may be more likely. What about the bases? :)
Title: Re: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: lyndhurst44 on June 06, 2008, 01:43:59 PM
The bases as requested ;D

Bryn
Title: Re: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: Frank on June 06, 2008, 02:11:17 PM
All the Stuart Strathearn ones are mould blown and have a cut rim. It is the aubergine that is the puzzle.
Title: Re: Black Glass / Gold Vases - D'Humy, IOW, Stuart Strathearn...
Post by: nigel benson on June 10, 2008, 09:29:00 PM
Re: D'Humy,

Quote
Does anyone have any colour pictures of this glass in their libraries?

Yes, Colour Plate III from "Decorative Arts 1850 -1950, A Catalogue of the British Museum Collection" by Judy Rudoe, British Museum Press 1991 (revised 1994).

There is also a complete set of B/W photos of the D'Humy collection in addition to text discussing them.

I remember visiting the BM with the Glass Association many years ago, when, for me, the high-light was seeing these pieces in the reserve collection. The B/W pictures in particular do not do justice to them.

Whilst there is reference to him being a copiest, I would suggest that these pieces exhibit a fresh approach to the use of gold and/or silver foil to the past - just as with other later uses mentioned in this thread. In other words there is a progression in design, whether or not influenced by the predecessor(s).

By-the-by, don't forget the use of gold, and silver, foil as well as mica in early Harry Powell designed vessels.

Kind regards, Nigel