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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => Belgium and the Netherlands Glass => Topic started by: Andy on January 19, 2007, 02:15:14 PM

Title: Val St Lambert ,help from the ladies, are they for dressing table?
Post by: Andy on January 19, 2007, 02:15:14 PM
I couldnt resist these lovely Val st Lambert crystal items at a recent auction, they were listed as Danish glass dressing table items! but both signed Val st Lambert!
I expect they are circa 1950s, but does anyone have a view on the use of them?
The decanter is too big for perfume, 7inches , and the dish is 3 1/2 inches.

Dressing table or Dining table?? Any views?

Thanks Andy
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4634
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4633
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4632

(of course ideas on date and designer, very welcome! as of course are opinions
from the gentlemen on the board)
Title: Re: Val St Lambert ,help from the ladies, are they for dressing table?
Post by: Glen on January 19, 2007, 04:07:58 PM
Well, I could be wrong, but I would say the "decanter" is a cologne bottle, and the covered jar is a paste/pomade jar. Both boudoir (dressing table) items IMHO.
Title: Re: Val St Lambert ,help from the ladies, are they for dressing table?
Post by: glasswipe on January 19, 2007, 08:25:04 PM
Hi,I would say they are for mens dressing area.Cologne bottle and hair cream pot.
Title: Re: Val St Lambert ,help from the ladies, are they for dressing table?
Post by: Andy on January 19, 2007, 09:54:20 PM
Hmmm thanks, a mans dressing table! it sounds possible, although not like mine, but people
in the past were a lot more sophisticated than i am now! A can of deoderant and some
paracetamols is all ive got! (oh and some Hi Karate of course)
Cheers andy

Title: Re: Val St Lambert ,help from the ladies, are they for dressing table?
Post by: Glen on January 19, 2007, 10:05:58 PM
In old catalogues that I have studied (for form, function and shape) I have never seen any "men's dressing table" items!!
Title: Re: Val St Lambert ,help from the ladies, are they for dressing table?
Post by: Frank on January 20, 2007, 02:37:40 AM
could that be reverse sexism, I ponder. Not for an excessive period of course. But, should not men's be pomade.
Title: Re: Val St Lambert ,help from the ladies, are they for dressing table?
Post by: Frank on January 20, 2007, 02:40:29 AM
It IS Saturday night (oops, morning 03:37 here mislead y Windows indicating Saturday - so for the pedants it is actually Friday's night.) My excuse is is a fine 8 year old Pastis. Yes, moderators can let their hair down and present a semblance of human(ness).
Title: Re: Val St Lambert ,help from the ladies, are they for dressing table?
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 20, 2007, 10:42:08 AM
 ;D
I'm not positive about dates of periods, (Edwardian/Victorian etc.) but I did watch some tv programmes about folk trying to live in Edwardian houses using nothing but what was available at the time.

All the toiletries were for men.
Men could purchase their own scented soap, while women had to make their own smelly stuff at home, out of tallow.
Men had hair products - macassar, which is why they had to invent anti-macassars, to protect the furniture from their greasy gunk.
Title: Re: Val St Lambert ,help from the ladies, are they for dressing table?
Post by: Glen on January 20, 2007, 10:54:36 AM
My point was really that boudoir or toilet sets aka dressing table sets were unisex. In other words, they were not described as "mens" or "womens" but were simply described according to the intended function.

(Edited to add: and the covered jar could of course be a powder jar).
Title: Re: Val St Lambert ,help from the ladies, are they for dressing table?
Post by: Jay on January 29, 2007, 12:20:14 AM
I think that retailers also often play a part in this! There are many variant models available from the factories for some patterns, In general shops were not obliged to buy 'boxed sets' but individual items and so they were probably retailed in different sets comprising some of the same items, likewise smaller shops will have stocked just a few models and larger stockists may have had a complete selection, from which a 'set' could be assembled.

It's hard to imagine a cologne bottle of this (apparent) size (and weight) without a suitable applicator (or an extended stopper). Usually a bottle that can be shaken into the hand or onto a handkerchief would be somewhat smaller and lighter than this would appear to be.

A careful look for any lip on the decanter might yield a clue about it's designer's intended function. But at the end of the day it's worth remembering that many such items were considered 'multifunctional'.
Given the Belgian connection it could be an absinthe decanter and a bowl for the sugar cubes! ;-)
or a vinegar bottle and a pot for grandma's dentures! ;-) or ....

(whoops, sorry for being silly towards the end!)

Title: Re: Val St Lambert ,help from the ladies, are they for dressing table?
Post by: Glassic on January 29, 2007, 01:38:51 AM
I'm 'minded of gentlemans toiletry.  Men were just about stapled together not so many generations ago.
You guys have it sweet nowadays. No silver or crystal boxes for collars, clips, studs and cuff links. 
Victorian men had all that facial hair to trim, shaving soap was just that, hard soap kept in a box.  Laces, buttons and button hooks, all needing a home, the list is endless .... Of course you had your 'man' to keep it organised in the travel cases or topped and tidy up in your dressing room.   
Title: Re: Val St Lambert ,help from the ladies, are they for dressing table?
Post by: KevinH on January 29, 2007, 02:06:38 AM
Quote
You guys have it sweet nowadays. No silver or crystal boxes for collars, clips, studs and cuff links.
Maybe, but I do have to get my cuff links see here (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4765) out of their case, and it's such a hassle removing them from those tiny little elastic holders, and it's even more of a hassle trying to insert them into modern cuffs with their not-quite-big-enough cuff link holes [is there a special name for those?] and I sure don't have a man [or woman, for that matter] to achieve this for me. Oh, dear! Life is so hard these days! :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Val St Lambert ,help from the ladies, are they for dressing table?
Post by: Andy on January 29, 2007, 03:36:29 PM
Jay,
your id of an absinthe decanter and bowl for sugar cubes is my favourite so far!
Not being an absinthe drinker, what do you do with the sugar cubes?
Cheers Andy
Title: Re: Val St Lambert ,help from the ladies, are they for dressing table?
Post by: Glen on January 29, 2007, 04:18:16 PM
Don't dismiss the "bottle" as a cologne bottle because of its large size. For example, contemporary advertising shows that Northwood's Grape & Cable stoppered bottle was intended as a ladies' cologne. The bottle stands 9 1/2" high! It was partnered with a puff box, a hatpin holder, a pin tray and a brush & comb tray. However, multi-use was undoubtedly intended for the Grape & Cable cologne, as it was also advertised partnered with 6 small "shots" as a whiskey set.

Cologne bottle? Whiskey decanter? Probably not a case of either or. Most likely a case of both!

(EDITED TO ADD....but not "both" at the same time  :o)
Title: Re: Val St Lambert ,help from the ladies, are they for dressing table?
Post by: Sue C on January 29, 2007, 04:43:18 PM
I agree with Glen, i remember my nan used to get a large bottle of cologne from the chemist (i think it was the chemist) Lavender or Rose, and decanter it into a smaller bottle on her dressing table, i always remember the Lavender had a lilac ribbon on the neck and the Rose had a Pink ribbon, she also had jar's like yours for talcum powder, gosh what memories, i loved my nanna teeny.
Title: Re: Val St Lambert ,help from the ladies, are they for dressing table?
Post by: Jay on January 29, 2007, 06:58:48 PM
Andy,
Absinthe is one of the purest forms of alcohol ever consumed, and very hard on the mouth if you drink it! The sugar is to 'soften the blow'! :) Just put the cube onto a teaspoon and dip into absinthe quickly before gulping.
(or apply a few drops from a bottle onto the cube). I've heard you can also set light to the sugar cube so that some of the excess alcohol fumes burn off like a christmas pudding effect, but I'm not sure that this was really common practise.
(Then it's more like a peppermint! but with a sting in the tail)
It is banned in many countries because the effects are almost 'hallucinogenic' and the after-effects like a Class A narcotic, also known as 'visiting the green fairy'.
Toulouse Lautrec and co. were crazy about the stuff, probably crazy because of the stuff too!

(see Kylie Minogue in 'Moulin Rouge').

Not to be attempted by the faint-hearted! (even if it IS legal in your area!) ;-)

I still think that it would be useful to know if there is any lip shaped into the neck of the decanter. Its size may give a clue, since a perfume/cologne decanter should typically produce quite a thin stream of fluid.
Title: Re: Val St Lambert ,help from the ladies, are they for dressing table?
Post by: Andy on January 29, 2007, 07:19:14 PM
Thanks Jay,
no lip on neck of decanter, just nice close fit, etched 145 on stopper and inside of neck.
would be nice to know designer and age , but beautifully made.
Ive just had 3 pints of Guiness, thats enough for me! I would have tried Absynthe when younger,
but i dont think my liver could take it now!
Regards Andy