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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => Scandinavian Glass => Topic started by: david31162 on February 27, 2005, 11:13:21 PM

Title: ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
Post by: david31162 on February 27, 2005, 11:13:21 PM
Can anyone help with this? Its got a few scratched marks to the base.
K-11 R-e.56 ... (may not be R)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/david-dj/glass/glass20002.jpg
thanks
David
Title: ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
Post by: taylog1 on March 01, 2005, 07:08:16 AM
David,

I think this is Reijmyre (PAUL KEDELV ?) not Kosta, both because of the look and signature.
Last two similar bits on Ebay went in the region $70 ish.

Taylog1
Title: ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
Post by: paradisetrader on March 01, 2005, 08:52:25 AM
Yep looks more like his style than Kosta but I thought he was connected with Flygsfors rather than Reijmyre ?
.....oops a quick check in the books shows he worked for both.
Title: Thanks for the information
Post by: david-dj on March 01, 2005, 09:38:08 PM
Thanks for the information folks.
PAUL KEDELV thats a new name for me . Ill start looking him up.
Great forum this - Ill have to try a few more long unidentified pieces on you.
Cheers.
David
Title: ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
Post by: vidfletch on March 02, 2005, 02:24:11 AM
Paul Kedelv left Flygsfors and went to work for Reijmyre. He was there from 1956 to 1957. A lot of his Reijmyre work is very similar to his Coquille range at Flygsfors.

Vidfletch :twisted:
Title: ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
Post by: vidfletch on March 02, 2005, 02:35:45 AM
Look at this vase by Kedelv for Reijmyre. It is signed "R-e -57, K 16".

http://img50.exs.cx/img50/995/kedelvreijmyre4km.jpg

Vidfletch :twisted:
Title: ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
Post by: Ivo on March 02, 2005, 06:41:31 AM
as a comparison, here is the Flygsfors dogbone I picked up last week.
You can see the shape and colour gradients in the later Reijmyre piece are more sophisticated...
http://www.xs4all.nl/~abel/question/flygbone.jpg
Title: ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
Post by: paradisetrader on March 02, 2005, 08:04:57 AM
Vidfletch
Quote
Paul Kedelv left Flygsfors and went to work for Reijmyre. He was there from 1956 to 1957

Bill Geary has it as 1956-78 when the firm was sold to Upsala-Ekeby
Title: ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
Post by: vidfletch on March 02, 2005, 01:07:25 PM
Ivo's book has him at Reijmyre only in 1956 to 1957. He then has him at Fåglavik glasbruk from 1957 to 1976.

I don't know anything about Fåglavik glasbruk. Another mysterious Swedish glass company!

Vidfletch :twisted:
Title: Reijmyre and Paul Kedelv
Post by: Bill G on March 02, 2005, 02:39:14 PM
My good friend Ivo and I seem to have secured different
information about Paul Kedelv's years at Reijmyre.

My source for this information was  "Lyricism of Modern Design Swedish Glass 1900 - 1970" a catalog for the exhibition of Swedish glass in Japan.
Gunnel Holmer in a section entitled Glasshouses & Designers says for the Reijmyre Glasshouse that Paul
Kedelv was there from 1956 - 1976.

This was my source but I will go back to Gunnel, who I will see next week and reconfirm this was not a typing error on the part of the editor.

Ivo, please recontact me. We live in Sweden now.
Thanks
Title: ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
Post by: Ivo on March 02, 2005, 03:59:42 PM
Completely unable to reconstruct where my data came from, but it is certain that I did not make up Fåglavik  :D
Title: ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
Post by: vidfletch on March 02, 2005, 05:33:16 PM
The plot thickens!

In Lesley Jackson's book "20th Century Factory Glass" it states that Paul Kedelv worked for Reijmyre from 1956 to 1978!

It says he created more than 1100 designs while there and mentions various ranges of glass he developed. The last one SHE mentions was in 1965 which was series of textural vases.

Could have have done a bit of freelance work?

Vidfletch :twisted:
Title: ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
Post by: Anonymous on March 02, 2005, 05:48:49 PM
Ivo,

Sure you weren't slipping in a few "facts" to detect plaigarism ?  :lol:

My favourites from Chambers dictionary (1998 edition) are:

eclair:-  a cake “long in shape, but short in duration”,
middle aged:- a period “between youth and old age, variously reckoned to suit the reckoner”
paneity:- “the state of being bread”, and
taghairm:- “(in the Scottish highlands) divination; especially inspiration sought by lying in a bullock’s hide behind a waterfall”

(shamelessly plaigarised from the net !)

Taylog1
Title: Paul Kedelv and Reijmyre
Post by: Bill G on March 02, 2005, 06:15:20 PM
I am not sure where this is going but lets get one thing
straight. The answer is to go to my source and see if
my information is correct which I said I would do.
This way, we all will get the data which I assume is the goal of this site.
I will also check to get some information on Fåglavik
Glasbruk. Fåglavik is a city in the middle of the country
towards the west coast and south of Lidköping.
Title: ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
Post by: taylog1 on March 02, 2005, 06:31:03 PM
Bill,

I for one wasn't implying anything by my comment, simply trying to bring a smile to a few faces at the end of a long day - apologies if you took offense, none intended.

Taylog1
Title: Paul Kedelv
Post by: Bill G on March 02, 2005, 08:09:28 PM
No problem. It spent four hours in classes on Swedish and one tends to loss your sense of humor trying to figure out why each verb has five different forms or nouns can have four different ways to make a plural.

And I thought English, my native language, was difficult.

No offense taken
Title: ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
Post by: Ivo on March 02, 2005, 08:35:55 PM
Quote from: "Anonymous"
Ivo,

Sure you weren't slipping in a few "facts" to detect plaigarism ?  :lol:

My favourites from Chambers dictionary (1998 edition) are:

eclair:-  a cake “long in shape, but short in duration”,
middle aged:- a period “between youth and old age, variously reckoned to suit the reckoner”
paneity:- “the state of being bread”, and
taghairm:- “(in the Scottish highlands) divination; especially inspiration sought by lying in a bullock’s hide behind a waterfall”

(shamelessly plaigarised from the net !)

Taylog1


It's been a long day, I suggest you take a hot bath and a cup of tea, it will do you good.
Title: ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
Post by: Sklounion on March 02, 2005, 10:52:44 PM
Taylog1,

With respect, I think Ivo and Bill have been very tolerant and restrained in their responses. There will always be differences of dates etc, because information that was available at day 1 gets superceded by that which comes from another publication, weeks, sometimes days later.
I recently id'ed glass for a certain publication, which, with the arrival of a single copy of a trade journal, a day later, identified several pieces attributed to other designers, and have been "gospel" for 10-15 years in the west, had to be changed. I had said to the publishers the day before, "thats ok, go with it".

This may have been a humorous post, but it sailed damned close to the wind. A litigious person would have had your guts for garters.
Title: ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
Post by: Max on March 02, 2005, 11:18:45 PM
Please forgive me, I know I'm new, and shouldn't really be sticking my nose in!

I think Taylog was playfully referring to 'detecting plagiarism', rather than being disrespectful to two earnest members.

In my mind, Taylog reminded me of cartographers.  They sometimes add false town names or tributarys to their maps in order to detect other folk using their highly paid for expertise in their own maps for nothing.

I have a feeling that there was a high profile case in the last couple of years in which a company successfully sued over plagiarism of maps (was it the AA?), due to copying a false river tributary which was deliberately added for this very reason.

Sorry, I know I'm new....but I can't help myself adding my bit.   Hope you don't mind.

Max xx
Title: ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
Post by: Ivo on March 03, 2005, 06:55:07 AM
Thanks, Max. I have no problem admitting there are a few control facts in the A-Z book, but Paul Kedelv it ain't.  And I'm not going to tell you which ones they are... that would defeat the purpose. 8)
Title: ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
Post by: taylog1 on March 03, 2005, 06:58:38 AM
Thanks Max, exactly the point I was making.
Title: ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
Post by: Frank on March 03, 2005, 09:27:01 AM
For what it is worth....

... dates can be a very difficult to get accurate and can only be confirmed from verifiable first hand, witnessed accounts. Even dealing with the families and workers related to a single glassworks can be fraught with inconsistencies.

On my site I have three highly researched resources - listing company data, people data and event data. Even 20th century official records such as birth, wedding and death certificates can include conflicting dates, parentage and even spelling. Company dates can be an even bigger nightmare.

The 19th century material is even worse.

The worst source is word of mouth, particularly from the people themselves. If they kept a daily diary then that might be accurate but recollections lead to all sorts of problems. Because of the number of dates that have only had a single corroboration, there exist many question marks against dates in the aforementioned resources... These question marks are against dates that have some documentary evidence. Quite often is up to the author of a work to pick which 'documented' date to use. I have many cases where documented dates can vary by up to 10 years and those selected are chosen in context with other dates and with reference to the date that date was written down. So birth certificates are more readily accepted for date of birth than wedding or death certificates - but a family bible entry could be regarded as even more reliable. Worst source is a workers CV where dates tend to be adjusted to fill gaps and/or to enhance a particular experience.

Surely for the interest of collecting, what counts is the period that the people worked and produced various pieces - this carries a useful message about whether the subject was a radical progressive or a follower of fashion in their work.

Accurate dates become important when there is a need to define a 'first' event from two closely competing claims - a glance at any history of invention will show that these types of battles are very commonplace and inevitably one party must be lying. Yet each party may honestly believe they are right and the decision will rest on the 'most convincing' explanation/evidence.

A piece of glass on eBay claims to be a very early example of Monart Glass dating to c. 1880 when Salvador was just two years old. This creates a problem, as according to research he did not start working in a glassworks until he was 9 years old. That he had developed Monart 7 years earlier is a major surprise and has consequences for the whole art glass movement - Gallé and the Nancy school were it seems just copying the concepts of the young Salvador Ysart. :twisted:
Title: ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
Post by: aa on March 03, 2005, 10:25:43 AM
Hmm...as I am listed in Ivo's book but not in Lesley Jackson's I couldn't possibly comment...I could be accused of bias   :D
Title: ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
Post by: Ivo on March 10, 2005, 07:13:18 PM
You were promised an answer to the question at hand and here it is:

"Just returned from the Våxjö Glas Museum and guess what, we were both
right about Paul K at Reijmyre and the other glass works. Since Paul was a free lance designer he could and did work at both places. I cannot get on the glass museum site to post this message. This place has presented me with nothing but aggrevation in trying to be posted as a member. Bill Geary"

I hope we'll be able to keep Bill on board - he was rather disenchanted (to use a polite phrase) at the previous and probably got puzzled by the logon & logoff virus that plagues this board.  
Ivo
Title: ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
Post by: vidfletch on March 14, 2005, 10:04:04 PM
That was a job well done! I knew we would get there in the end! What or who next? LOL!!!

Vidfletch :twisted:
Title: ARCHIVE? Signature K-11 R-e.56 and R-e -57, K 16
Post by: David on March 14, 2005, 10:15:14 PM
Thanks for all that information.
It certainly is Paul Kedelv , Ive looked at dozens of designs since you first mentioned him to me. It seems to be an  unusual shape. He has used the exact same colours in a Flygsfors piece on P 74 of Lesley Jacksons 20th C glass. But the marks on the base show it clearly to be a Reijmyre piece.
Thanks again Ive learned a lot since my first post .
David