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Glass Paperweights / Re: Paperweight for id
« Last post by w8happiness on Yesterday at 11:30:44 AM »
Hello Hazel,

a nice weight with some age indeed - the author Peter von Brackel recorded weights like your's in the category of post classic weights (i.e. roughly 1850/60 until 1900) and he only could distinguish a couple of groups with common features, without being able to differentiate a certain source for each group.

So those weights are mostly filed under post classic, from Bohemia, Silesia, Saxony,Bavaria, Thuringia or Lusatia- the youngest identified of them were made in Lauscha/Thuringia (some dated around the 1930ies and 1940ies). Surely the makers had inherited some knowledge about making millefiori, but the domes are sometimes irregular and the glass is sometimes of inferior quality compared to classic pieces of the mentioned areas.

Many of those weights are found in the USA, where German and Bohemian immigrants were coming in around 1850/60, and possibly brought the weights along as a keepsake from their home country.

Hope this helps, best wishes Erhard   
I find your response to M frankly offensive and perhaps you should read the court cases to find exactly who did what from the horses' mouths instead of relying on second hand reports.The V&A gets it wrong sometimes, we know they do. The glass museum (was Broadfield House) gets it wrong sometimes. There is a lot of firsthand detail in those court cases about the various processes involved, not just the embezzlement.

Flying free, I apologise for upsetting you.

You seem to think I am on a crusade of sorts.

One minute you find information you say supports my theory, the next, you are trying to pull it too pieces.
Not that I care really, I only have the one piece of glass.

But if everyone is ready to quote Tallis and Manley, and stand by what they wrote, they should also stand by the information I have, direct from the V&A, as it's from the very same source, plus other sources Mrs Crouch mentioned, go and disagree with them!

I am not interested in court cases, embezzlement,shmezzlement.

You might be familiar with glass, but I have spent all of my working life in manufacturing, and whether you like it or not, the finishing of ANY workable piece, for display, sale or patent makes that company the manufacturer.

Powells supplied the blanks, only.

So you can dig up whatever you like, who his tailor was, what his favourite colours were, I don't really care.

I do know that Powells did NOT make the finished product, they just supplied blanks
Just as much as YOU know who didn't?

If you are so interested in this thread, why didn't you know more before, do you like being contentious?

Once again, I don't really care, but if someone, with absolutely no idea about antique glass can send you into this sort of spin, you want to watch out when you come across a proffesional,!!!

I disagree regarding your explanation of what a maker of glass (manufacturer of glass) is. 
To my knowledge, the maker is the company that, or person who, blows the glass or presses the glass.

The process of refining the glass, i.e cutting, gilding, enamelling, silvering or whatever process is done to the the glass object after it has been manufactured (i.e. made by the maker) is called refining and finishing (as far as I know). There may be two names associated with a piece of glass, the maker of the glass and the refiner. 
I am open to correction on this.

I had already supplied the corroborating information that Powell's made some of the double walled glass items and that the 'refining' i.e. the cutting, silvering and plugging was done at Thomson's workshop in Berners Street,  in my previous posts about the court cases.

The information in the court cases gives further enlightenment as to who did what process at the Thomson owned workshop in Berners Street.
They seem to have had a number of people working there who seem to have done the refining of the glass.
It also tells the reader about what exactly Mr Varnish did and what Mr Mellish did.

Mr Mellish was sentenced to 10 years imprisonment in 1851 for embezzlement.

I do not agree with these assertions in your post, from looking at the evidence given in the court case:

1) 'Ok,are you ready, the two original patentees were Varnish and Mellish, with Thomson joining up later. nothing to debate!'

Thomson did not join up later as far as I read. 

2) 'BLANKS were then sent back to Varnish and Thomson, who COMPLETED the process, silvering.sealing, marking.still no debate!'

According to Mr Varnish's evidence he knew nothing about glass and operated the commercial arm of the business.
Thomson did originally do some silvering and may have again done some silvering after Mellish went to prison but i seems  tMr Thomson employed a variety of finisher/cutters etc and it may have been they who completed the process.  He employed Mellish to help him do the process in the first place.  Varnish did not do this.

3) 'Once again, I will say that the end user of any material in the way of production is the manufacturer.'
In the glass world I would say this is an incorrect statement.

By the way, I'm no expert so am open to correction from people who have vastly more glass knowledge than I have.  This is just my understanding.

And I do not wish to be argumentative.  It's just that information on the GMB can be read worldwide so it is important that the information is factual. 

And is Judith Crouch aware of the court case evidence from the online cases from the Old Bailey, one in 1851 and then two in 1852?
I thought I had unearthed new evidence in finding those cases, but perhaps the V& A was aware of these all along and has the transcripts already?

Glass Paperweights / Re: Peter Holmes - Noddy & Big Ears Paperweights
« Last post by Lustrousstone on Yesterday at 10:18:29 AM »
 ;D nice one
I have been speaking to the V&A, to a lady called Judith Crouch.

Ok,are you ready, the two original patentees were Varnish and Mellish, with Thomson joining up later. nothing to debate!

Powells and others supplied BLANKS, this is very important. still nothing to debate!

BLANKS were then sent back to Varnish and Thomson, who COMPLETED the process, silvering.sealing, marking.still no debate!

Tallis had Powells as MANUFACTURING most of the glass for the exhibition, in reality they just provided the BLANKS,no more, just blanks.

I used to buy "BLANK lengths of granite" I would cut, polish, and drill it, MANUFACTURING a kitchen worktop.

This simple phrase refering to Powells as the MANUFACTURER, is what all the contention is about.

Once again, I will say that the end user of any material in the way of production is the manufacturer.

I have suggested to Mrs Crouch that the description should omit "possibly by, or attributed too" to be replaced by "Blanks supplied by Powells and others",and "Manufactured by Varnish and Thomson"

This clears up all grey areas of WHO manufactured Varnish and Thomson, the answer was infront of us all the time.
At the time that Tallis wrote about the Great Exhibition the phrase "Manufactured by Powells of Whitefriars" should have been "Manufactured by Thomson and Varnish, blanks supplied by Powells and others"

I will post again once I have had a reply from Mrs Crouch.
Glass / Re: Glass mark - looks like a bunch of grapes with a decanter top
« Last post by flying free on Yesterday at 08:34:40 AM »
I think it's an AV if that helps - or VA of course.

1) I think the engraved E Varnish mark is on the rim - the rim at the top, not the foot rim. 
And then they mention an ' inserted metal plug in the base.' is also marked

It looks a bit confusing because it also has a decorative silver-looking applied-looking edging around the base rim.  But I do think they mean it is marked on the silver rim collar at the neck.

2) I've just had a lightbulb moment - if you look at the vase in a download you can see that there is an applied metal collar in the stem.
If this is an 'epergne' then the metal collar may not be a damage cover-up but might be the metal insert for the upper vase body to sit in the base.
So by 'metal plug in the base' they might be the inserted metal plug for the vase upper body to set into?

3) I  think it looks as though it has a blue interior.  Could this be a reflection of the silver appearance of the internal layer of glass (i.e.surface facing the inside of the vase  where water would go for flowers) ?  if it is indeed silvered using the silver nitrate method.

4) If it really is silvered in the double wall process, then who knows how they did it because it looks like that could mean:

-  clear internal layer, doubled wall external layer
-  then double walled external layer cased in ruby,
-  then ruby layer cased in clear layer (see downloaded image to show the thick clear layer over the internal ruby layer especially at the foot stem)
-  then clear outer layer cased in white

5) But it just does not look like it was made by an English maker to the eye.
The cutting does not look anything like the cutting on the other E. Varnish double walled silvered glass. 
It has vermicular decoration on it.
The upper rim of the vase (not the foot rim) looks as though it is cut and bevelled underneath the silver collar doesn't it?

6) I wonder if this comment in the description is correct:

'Production Note

'E. Varnish and F. Hale Thomson patented the silvering process used in the manufacture of this vase.'

The vase does have silver applications on it but that is not the same as being a double walled vessel with silver nitrate poured between the layers to give a reflective surface to the glass.

Summary: Very strange piece of apparently Powell & Sons glass  :-\

Glass / Re: Glass mark - looks like a bunch of grapes with a decanter top
« Last post by Paul S. on Yesterday at 08:06:57 AM »
sorry, can't help with maker or to whom the mark refers, but just possible this is a sandblasted logo/mark  -  it has a granulated sort of appearance.         It may well not indicate a maker  -  and might relate to a retailer or wholesaler - and quite modern imho.
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