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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: jadetrading on July 18, 2005, 08:01:57 AM

Title: Ysart ? Babycham glasses
Post by: jadetrading on July 18, 2005, 08:01:57 AM
Hi there,
I have in my possesion two Babycham glasses that I believe were decorated by Vincent Ysard glass works.They are described as follows.
1.The Bambi is light brown in boby with fawn ears,chest,tummy and tail.It also has three fawn dots on it`s rump and has a blue ribbon.
2.The glass stands 110mm in height.
3.It has a round stem(not six sided).
4.It does not have a gold rim.
5.The word "babycham" and a circle of dots are engraved or etched on the inside of the glass bowl.It also has a etch mark in the middle of the bowl.I believe this was put there to generate bubbles when the champs
was poured into the glass.I believe this innovation wae developed by Vincent Ysard.
Could you please advise the value of these glasses if any.I believe them to be from the very early years.
I look forward to your reply.
best regards. :?:
Title: Ysart ? Babycham glasses
Post by: Frank on July 19, 2005, 12:05:26 PM
Hi,

Vasart decorated some Babycham glasses for Showerings but so did a lot of other glass decorators. Nazeing too. Showerings have no records of who and when.

Ysart is spelt with a t not a d.

Value is upto about £1 per glass, more for boxed sets as the boxes are the only way of dating these as 1950'or 1990's. I presume they are still being made.

The 'etch' marks you refer to are probably just remnants of transfers that were not properly fired, they certainly would not be engraved and if etched it would be by transfer too.

The story about it being an Ysart innovation sounds like one of those colourful tales dreamt up by dealers trying to make there mass produced glasse stock special.
Title: Etched Babycham glasses
Post by: jadetradng on July 19, 2005, 10:11:58 PM
Hi Frank,
Thankyou for the reply.With regard to the Babycham glasses,I found the info on a profile of Collin?Terris(designer of the modern paperweight apparently)on the internet when I was trying to establish the age of these glasses.The glasses are without any doubt etched and not transfers.I have posted them on the ebay under"Vasart" &"Babycham"with photos.If you can possibly find the time,please view and tell me what you think.If the info that I have is incorrect,I would rather withdraw them from the auction or at the very least correct the information.The auction ends next Monday night at about 20h00.I am going to try and take a better shot of the etching and will put that on latter tonight.There are currently two photos on the auction.Thankyou once again for taking the time to reply and I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Best Regards,
Rachel
Title: Ysart ? Babycham glasses
Post by: Frank on July 20, 2005, 04:36:52 AM
Hi Rachel,

The picture does look like etching, but it would have been done with a transfer.

Do you have a link to the Colin Terris reference?
Title: Colin Terris Babycham reference
Post by: jadetrading on July 20, 2005, 09:14:42 AM
Good morning Frank,
Thankyou for the quick response.You can find the reference by typing in "colin terris babycham" and search.Then select "Colin Terris Glass Designer".Looking forward to you response.
Best Regards,
Rachel
Title: Ysart ? Babycham glasses
Post by: KevinH on July 20, 2005, 11:47:59 PM
Hi Rachel,

I had seen the auction listing before I read the message in here, but I was not inclined to make any comments, as I usually do not do so for current listings, unless I see a major error in something that I have particlular knowledge about (which is actually not very much at all).

I am in favour of sellers adding researched information to eBay listings, and well done for making the effort, Rachel. But in this instance I wonder whether your summary is accurate.

The information about the "small scratch" that Vicent Ysart made in the Babycham glasses was, as I understand it, given to Angela Bowey (our host for this Message Board) by Colin Terris and appears in Angela's article in her Glass Museum site (as located through the search info given by Rachel). However, nowhere does it say anything (that I can see) to suggest the wording you have added to your listing:
Quote
... or as in this case a circular etching combined with the word Babycham.
In fact, the only additional text I can find in Angela's article relating to this is the wording
Quote
... with the rough patch scratched in the bottom
, which seems to confirm that it only that ... a rough scratching.

Unfortunately I don't know much at all about the Babycham glasses, but it certainly would be useful to know whether there is any reliable information about who actually applied the etched Babycham name, and when this was first done. I suspect it was not at the Vasart works, but I could be wrong.

Any ideas Frank, or anyone else?
Title: Babycham etched glasses
Post by: jadetrading on July 21, 2005, 03:08:20 AM
Hi KevH,
I have chatted to Mary H-L (editor) and she says there is some reference to these glasses at www.ysartglass.com.I have asked her to get in touch with you and Frank.I must say that I have read some of your contributions and find it very informative.AS I said to Mary,if the info I have listed is incorrect,I`d rather withdraw the glasses from auction.I have a flawless ebay record and do not want to spoil it.Please let me know how you get on.I must add that it was never my intention to mislead anyone.I have been relentless in my efforts to establish the origin of these glasses.They are so different from the common Babycham glasses that there must be a story behind them.Mary did concur that they were rare and collectable.I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Best regards,
Rachel
Title: Ysart ? Babycham glasses
Post by: Frank on July 21, 2005, 09:57:47 PM
Mary was not really correct about that. There do appear to be some collectors of these glasses but only for the period nature and as I said before unboxed they sell for about a pound a piece. I would not describe them as scarce, certainly produced for many decades there must be tens of thousands still existing, perhaps 1 in a 1,000 were decorated at Vasart.

I agree with Kevin that it is unlikely that these particular glasses were decorated at Vasart. They are a different shape to ones I know were decorated at Vasart.

As Showerings do not even have historical records of who decorated the glasses, nor where the blanks were sourced apart from their current production, it is not reasonable to try and give any source.

I did not realise you were listing these currently. If you want to be accurate you should state that: "They were produced for Showering's by a variety of companies and are still in production."

You looked on my website so you must have read what I wrote there:
Quote from: "ysartglass.com"
Decoration only contract via Pirelli Glass.

Nazeing Glass later had a contract for these, and most recently (2004) so did Andrews Parke & Co Ltd.

There is no way yet known to tell which ones were decorated by Vasart.
Title: Ysart ? Babycham glasses
Post by: jadetrading on July 22, 2005, 07:27:11 AM
Thanks for your help Frank
Best reagards,
Rachel
Title: Ysart ? Babycham glasses
Post by: RAY on August 04, 2005, 09:07:55 PM
just seen this thread, i have 6 Babycham glasses and boxed, it's called the six glass party pack, all of them have a etch mark in the bottom of the glass, the transfer on each glass is put on back to front so it looks better from inside the glass as your drinking, there are no makers marks or anything on the box, the 1st photo is looking from the inside out of the glass the 2nd from the outside looking in

click on image for larger photo

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/yorkshirebob/th_d16cfaf8.jpg) (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/yorkshirebob/d16cfaf8.jpg)
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/yorkshirebob/th_30b81b83.jpg) (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/yorkshirebob/30b81b83.jpg)
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/yorkshirebob/th_0a4ca325.jpg) (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/yorkshirebob/0a4ca325.jpg)
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/yorkshirebob/th_f35aa09f.jpg) (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/yorkshirebob/f35aa09f.jpg)
Title: Ysart ? Babycham glasses
Post by: Frank on August 04, 2005, 10:54:24 PM
Thats's a fifties box. Could be the girls at Vasart did those!
Title: Ysart ? Babycham glasses
Post by: roget123 on September 03, 2005, 06:32:40 PM
The photos submitted by Ray show a 3-part glass, comprising bowl, stem and foot. The stem is round. and as Frank states by his identification of the box, one of the early productions.  Later Ravenhead developed a cheaper version via their automatic machine line at St Helens, these had a 6-sided stem. Showerings switched their contract(s) to Ravenhead to save costs.

When I was researching for my book on Nazeing I was told that the Company produced the glasses (with the round stems)  and also decorated them. Since then, I have heard of the invovlement of Moncrief/Ysalt for the decoration  so now I wonder if Nazeing only made the glasses and then shipped them to Scotland for the decoration.  Unfortunately as Frank has told us, Showerings (or their successors) do not have any information to help.

Geoff Timberlake
Title: Ysart ? Babycham glasses
Post by: Frank on September 04, 2005, 03:32:14 PM
Useful input Geoff.

Did Nazeing have a decorating shop, I can see no reason why they should not have done decoration too. Babycham was huge in the UK in the 50/60's and over the years probably produced very large quantities of these glasses. I have noticed a large variety of transfers used. Presumably the decorating contracts were relatively short 1-3 years and switched around to the best supplier. At times there could have been more than one decorator involved depending on the volumes needed.

Did you get any hint of volumes in your research?

Interesting that Nazeing actually produced that blanks too.
Title: Ysart ? Babycham glasses
Post by: David555 on September 20, 2005, 10:28:31 PM
Hi

I have a fair few like Ray's - no box but the three section construction, decoration and gold rim are all there

Funny - recently a dealer told me the moulded 6 sided stem was of a much earlier period, I knew he was talking rubbish

Mine all also have that little etch mark in the middle of bowl - I can't believe it was to make an already very bubbly drink fizz more :?

I will pop in here again as I collect anything Pirelli, Vasart related - I have lots of the animals some with the original Pirelli stickers

(http://hometown.aol.co.uk/blackcatgla/images/pirelli%20copy.jpg)

Adam D555 :twisted:  :twisted: