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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: bungie60 on July 03, 2008, 11:12:36 PM

Title: Sowerby 2597 vase
Post by: bungie60 on July 03, 2008, 11:12:36 PM
One of my vases having trouble with id found the same on Pamela's site in the vases section unknown, but when clicked on photo attributes it to sowerby pattern 5927. By the way it came on a  plinth marked on the bottom 2506. As i have been informed before marriages were quite common by retailers and dealers. Also speaking to the lady who i got it of, it had always been like that.  It stands an impressive 10" high, opening 5 1/2", base 3 1/2". Plinth base 6", top 4 1/4", inner 3 3/4", 1 1/2" high. Photos here
Title: Re: Sowerby or not
Post by: Bernard C on July 04, 2008, 04:36:31 AM
Mark — The pattern number got delightfully screwed up on its way to Pamela's site, as Sowerby allocated them strictly sequentially, so 5927 dates it to between 2050 and 2100!   It's actually 2597, a simple transposition error.    It's pictured and described by Roger Dodsworth in British Glass between the Wars, and he found it in Sowerby's 1938 trade catalogue, which is about right for the pattern number, giving a launch date of 1937–38.   It's probably also in Glen's Sowerby CDs.

I've had a dozen or more of these through my hands in all three sizes, 6", around 8", and 10" (15cm, c. 20cm, 25.5cm), never plinthed.   That Sowerby 2506 plinth doesn't even fit very well.   So I think a marriage, as you suspected, but it could have been an original retailer marriage for display purposes.

Sowerby called their pink Rosalin, probably because they had trouble keeping it a true pink.   Yours was made on one of their good pink days.   2597 comes in some stunning colours, particularly royal blue, black, and a wonderful vaseline yellow which fluoresces like crazy under a UV lamp.   It's also one of Sowerby's best Art Deco patterns.

Bernard C.  8) 
Title: Re: Sowerby or not
Post by: Bernard C on July 04, 2008, 06:57:42 AM
Pamela — here is the full reference:

Dodsworth, Roger, British Glass between the Wars, Dudley Leisure Services, 1987.   Illustrated exhibition catalogue, item 169, colour photograph p44, description p75.

... and if yours is the middle size, and the vase is available, I would be grateful for the exact height in millimetres.

Thanks in advance,

Bernard C.  8)

Just being tidy:-   The scarce small 6" size may have only two "handles" on each corner, unlike the two larger sizes which certainly have three.   I would be grateful for clarification on this.

B. C.  8)
Title: Re: Sowerby or not
Post by: Mosquito on July 04, 2008, 09:27:40 AM
I've only seen one 6 inch version of this pattern, I sold it over a year ago. I can confirm, however, that it had three 'handles' on each corner.

Title: Re: Sowerby or not
Post by: Bernard C on July 05, 2008, 08:10:49 AM
Steven — Thanks.   My memory was playing tricks on me.   The only 6" I've had was a pair in the vaseline colour I mentioned.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Sowerby or not
Post by: pamela on July 08, 2008, 06:03:24 PM
Are you sure that the height is 140mm?   If it is the smallest size, the height should be between 151 and 153mm.   Any smaller and the top or bottom of the vase would be damaged, which is not the case from your photograph.
Please would you check the height.
Thanks in advance,

Pamela wrote:
answering Sunday evening - here I go: mine is by the mm:
height 140 mm
top diam. 85 respectively 77 mm
base 50 mm resp. 45 mm depending both on the radius chosen 
Hope this helps - any news very welcome!
Best wishes as always,

Pamela's email address removed to prevent its harvest by spambots.
Title: Re: Sowerby or not
Post by: pamela on July 08, 2008, 06:04:58 PM
Bernard, impossible to measure it larger than it is - see attached photos with two different rulers - levelled the calculator - missing 1 mm with paper under the vase.
Another mystery or another maker?
Best regards,
Title: Re: Sowerby or not
Post by: pamela on July 08, 2008, 06:13:51 PM
photos, sorry for delay  :'(
Title: Re: Sowerby or not
Post by: pamela on July 08, 2008, 07:50:03 PM
and - as you noticed correctly Bernard, no damage at all
Title: Re: Sowerby or not
Post by: Bernard C on July 08, 2008, 08:06:54 PM
Pamela — This is fascinating.   I am certain that your 6" 2597 and Steven's were from different moulds.   Just compare the "handles".   Also I am fairly certain that the two mould are not different states of the same mould, but I would appreciate a second opinion on this.   The colour and finish of the two vases are both OK for Sowerby, so I doubt whether this is evidence for another manufacturer, but anything is possible.

Such discoveries are still rare, despite the increased availability of good quality photographs.   So, a good day for us and for the GMB.

And an apology.   Sixty years has taught me that the great majority of people do not know how to measure things.   It is not surprising, as most weren't taught this skill properly at school.   And, as the years go by, it gets worse, with mathematics being increasingly taught at school by unqualified teachers.   This was particularly brought home to me at our triple birthday celebration in May, when I put out several games for all ages to play.   One of these was proper old-fashioned bagatelle.   That was a bad choice, as it wasn't just a few of the children who couldn't add up the scores in their heads, but quite a number of the adults!   My beautiful granddaughter, aged just 13½ months, already has nursery rhyme books in French and a selection of number, size and shape toys, courtesy of moi.   One does one's best!   So, Pamela, I am sorry for being cautious about your ability to measure.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Sowerby 2597 vase
Post by: brucebanner on December 08, 2015, 07:14:04 PM
I know this is an old post but this vase is defiantly 8 1/4 inches in height, 5 1/4 inches across the rim and 3 1/2  inches across the base.

Not 8 inches.

Probably a mould size thing the difference in sizes.