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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => Bohemia, Czechoslovakia, Czech Republic, Austria => Topic started by: flying free on August 22, 2008, 05:28:06 PM

Title: glass decorating technique - what is it called? - ID = by Kralik
Post by: flying free on August 22, 2008, 05:28:06 PM
Hoping someone can point me in the right direction please?  I bought an hexagonal pot today, turquoise satin effect glass, but the surface on both the lid and pot looks as if a spider ran all over it making random squiggly grooves in it.  The grooves are not polished and are thin but therefore appear whiteish/rough on the satin finish.  It's gorgeous but I have no idea where to start on trying to find out about it?  
the surface decoration goes over the whole pot including the base.  I cannot find any mold seams on it at all.  the knob on the lid is part of the lid and hollow and is also hexagonal - very pretty.  Sorry no photo at the mo.
Any direction on where to start looking would be greatly appreciated  :)
m
Title: Re: glass decorating technique - what is it called?
Post by: Frank on August 22, 2008, 05:41:20 PM
Without a picture very difficult, it could one of many techniques, http://glasslinks.yobunny.org.uk/
Title: Re: glass decorating technique - what is it called?
Post by: flying free on August 23, 2008, 03:05:50 PM
 thank you Frank :).  I managed to get totally distracted looking at unrelated items  ;D for ages
I have found a similar effect on a post here - not sure if this link is going to work http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9926 (came up under a search using crackle effect)
I will continue my search
m
Title: Re: glass decorating technique - what is it called?
Post by: Frank on August 23, 2008, 04:02:04 PM
Probably best to move this topic to Muano as their will probably be a more precise definition of this technique in Murano terms. Cracquelle/Craquelle is the standard term. Dipped in water before blowing to final size which opens up the 'cracks' in the outer layer.
Title: Re: glass decorating technique - what is it called?
Post by: flying free on August 23, 2008, 04:10:03 PM
Thank you SOOO much :clap: - having looked at the base of the link inkstand, it is I would say, almost identical to my pot/box!  I will now go and trawl on cracquelle/craquelle.
m
Title: Re: glass decorating technique - what is it called?
Post by: pamela on August 23, 2008, 04:47:30 PM
Sorry, Frank, but before M gets lost - spelling is

craquelé or crackle glass

 ;)
Title: Re: glass decorating technique - what is it called?
Post by: flying free on August 23, 2008, 06:37:45 PM
a ghiaccio Frank?  ;D
thanks Pamela - however NOTHING I have looked at comes even close to the satin finish AND the craquele together.  Most seem to be clear crackle effect.  The only one which looks the same is the link on this site to the ink well :spls:
m
Title: Re: glass decorating technique - what is it called?
Post by: krsilber on August 23, 2008, 07:53:00 PM
Quote
Dipped in water before blowing to final size which opens up the 'cracks' in the outer layer.

I wonder if that precise method was used in a piece like the one in the gallery.  It seems like blowing it into the mold would make some "cracks" open more than others, but they are all pretty fine and uniform.  And where does the white come from?  I wish the photos showed the base better, how it was made (and attached?).  There's a thread about the piece somewhere, maybe I can find it.

...Ah, here is it:  http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,21109.0.html (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,21109.0.html).  I don't know if it's helpful or more confusing, though.  Has more links to pictures of the base, and shows a few wider cracks that don't look white.  Could it have been dipped in water after molding and still get that effect?
Title: Re: glass decorating technique - what is it called?
Post by: flying free on August 23, 2008, 11:06:35 PM
Kristi bear with me as I have no idea what I am talking about, but ...it seems to me all pics that I have looked at have a fairly consistent 'cover' of crackle as it were.  It seems to me some pieces also have been heated so the crackles have been covered over and the outer I guess must feel smooth but the crackle effect still shows, and others haven't been so that the surface feels rougher where you can feel the crackles perhaps- but they all have some consistency of effect over most of the piece (the ones I have seen in pics). 

On my little pot/box the surface is rough but only because of the crackles.  And the 'crackles' are grooves you can run your nail in.  It is rough in other words, apart from the satin bits.  But also the effect is not consistent.  It is random, as if a spider with acid on it's feet ran all over it in a panic ;D  and some of them are wider than others (a spider with one or two really big feet ;D )      It is completely smooth and polished shiny inside.  Not all the 'grooves' are whiteish.  In fact it looks like a map of rivers and tributaries.  It looks as though it was an applied technique on the surface after it was shaped, but that is to my totally untrained eye.  I really have no idea how it was done, so any clues would be gratefully received.
m
Title: Re: glass decorating technique - what is it called?
Post by: Max on August 24, 2008, 01:46:34 AM
Thanks Flying Free...I got your photo...and here's your item in GlassGallery:

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-10491

Title: Re: glass decorating technique - what is it called?
Post by: Ivo on August 24, 2008, 05:32:16 AM
that seems to be random threading enamel not crackle and might be Czech not Italian?
Title: Re: glass decorating technique - what is it called?
Post by: flying free on August 24, 2008, 05:24:07 PM
Max many thanks for doing the photo for me :)
Kev, I will try again to upload the program and work out what to do, thank you.
Frank, not wasted at all - I've had great fun looking at millions :spls: of different craquele/crackle effect techniques and learning something in the process.
Ivo, many thanks! a whole new area to look in learn as well.  I haven't come across anything apart from the inkwell link and two kralik (?) inkwells that looked similar (to my eye).  I think that is probably to do with the fact that my box is satin finish and everything I have looked at is either irridescent or clear making it very difficult for me to compare.   But very  interesting hunting nonetheless.

thanks all
m
Title: Re: glass decorating technique - what is it called?
Post by: krsilber on August 27, 2008, 11:24:14 PM
I'm not sure what controls the pattern that appears, but there seems to be quite a variety of crackle/craquele finishes.  Some of the networks of lines are quite dense, and it would be easy to think it was an entirely different technique from a piece like yours.  This vase shows a network that is dense on the neck, but less so on the body, presumably as a result of the expansion of the glass there.
http://cgi.ebay.com/TALL-Loetz-Iridescent-Craqele-Glass-Vase-circa-1895_W0QQitemZ130245580737QQihZ003QQcategoryZ29555QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

I never looked much at crackle glass before now, but to me the "pattern" on yours is very similar to some of the examples I've seen lately, though less dense.  It looks like the lines on the neck of the finial are quite thin compared to those on most of the body, is that true?  That would be from the glass expanding in the mold, stretching the lines and the pattern generally.

Then there's the white filling in the cracks.  Ivo's suggestion that it's randomly threaded enamel would account for it, but it doesn't seem to me like the lines follow the kind of look that threading produces - they're too jagged somehow.  The color thing stumped me on the inkwell, too... but I have an idea.  What if the pieces were coated with a thin layer of white powdered glass at the furnace, and this layer was removed by acid when the piece was satinized?  Only the areas of deeper white in the fissures would remain if the acid dip was done right.  This might account for the fact that in the wider cracks there's white only at the edges - where they expanded in the middle, the white layer was thinner.  Plausible?
Title: Re: glass decorating technique - what is it called?
Post by: flying free on August 27, 2008, 11:53:20 PM
thanks Kristi - I was just about to totally give up on this one as I have literally looked at every picture I think is available on the web - some I feel are a similar effect in terms of patterning but none really in terms of glass finish (e.g satin v irridescent) .  But then I have also realised that I haven't actually really seen any irridescent glass and whilst some obviously look totally different, there appears to be others which do have an all over single colour without variant/grading.  Therefore in the flesh as it were these vases may look similar to my pot, but I am pretty certain my pot is satin finish but definitely not irridised.
 Your description and reasoning of the white I buy :), ( not all of the grooves retain white, some appear as just grooves in the surface same colour) but I need to qualify that with I have no idea whatsoever  ;D but I am sure I read somewhere about something like that.    Having done lots of searching, I feel it is a crackle effect.  But then I have never seen a threaded effect either.  I would be interested to know if all threaded effect creates a raised thread on the surface ( saw just a few which from the photos looked as though they may be grooves rather than raised)- or can it also create a 'grooved' effect in the surface of the object?
I can tell this is going to become one of my faves :)
thanks again
m

Title: Re: glass decorating technique - what is it called?
Post by: krsilber on August 28, 2008, 02:45:38 AM
As far as the glass finish goes (satin, glossy, etc.), that isn't usually relevant when trying to discover a hot glass technique, but there are exceptions and this might be one of them.  The finish might hold clues for attribution, though, so it's good you paid attention to it when looking around.

Threading can create a raised pattern, but it can't create a sunken one except insofar as the surrounding glass may look like a groove has been created to accomodate the thread.  But the outer surface of the threading won't be below the surface of the rest of the glass.

As to attribution or origin, I'm pretty clueless there, not having seen other examples of this (that I remember).  The inkwell that's like yours seems to me to be an Italian shape, but that doesn't mean it was made there.  I've never seen any Czech/Bohemian glass with this sort of treatment, but maybe Ivo has. 

Have you figured out posting photos?  It might be helpful to see the bottom and a couple interior shots, including one of the lid.
Title: Re: glass decorating technique - what is it called?
Post by: Fuhrman Glass on August 28, 2008, 11:26:04 PM
Here's another crazy idea. It may have been crackled in "scavo" solution, i.e. mild soda solution and that produced the whiteness in the crackles. after it came out of the annealer it may have been put in an acid bath that etched the top surfaces and produced the satin finish.
It might also have been dipped in wax resist then heated a little allowing the wax to only stay in the crackle areas and then acid etched. It migtht also have been a fume etch where it was never dipped at all. it probably was blown as a crystal overlay of the light blue color and the crackling only crackled the outer surface, which may or may not have been equally distributed on the blue. this could account for the way the acid attacked some of the crackling more so than others and created the "white" look of the crackles.
Title: Re: glass decorating technique - what is it called?
Post by: krsilber on August 29, 2008, 01:18:11 AM
Oooh, cool ideas!  I was hoping a glassblower would "pipe up."  That scavo solution is intriguing.  So the soda turns everything a frosty color while producing the crackles?  Hmmm.

I'm a bit confused about the cased crystal hypothesis.  Is it only meant to account for the white lines, or also for the way it's crackled?

Tom, just out of curiosity, do you think my hypothesis is plausible as well?  If not, I'd like to know - all part of the learning process.
Title: Re: glass decorating technique - what is it called?
Post by: rosieposie on August 29, 2008, 08:41:40 AM
I was reading this thread yesterday, and then today, I was browsing eBay....the way you do..... and saw this
200247896789 and thought, 'is this the same technique'?
I don't know, but a spanner in the works might be worth 2 in the bush!! ;)
Title: Re: glass decorating technique - what is it called?
Post by: flying free on August 29, 2008, 01:14:53 PM
Tom thank you so much for your detailed and very informative reply  :)  It was much appreciated.  I am learning such a lot (rather than just 'oh I LIKE that' which is my normal reaction as to whether or not I buy a piece of glass, and it so interesting)
Kristi I must try and find a way of getting my photos on myself.  The base/foot is circular and is part of the base of the box and is hollow, the appearance in terms of decoration is the same as the inkwell and nothing I have found anywhere else on the net is the same.  Most of what appears to me 'familiar' and 'reminds me of' despite not being the same exactly, is Czech/Bohemian as Ivo said. 
Rosie I also found Dartington Studio plate on this site (robbo's? perhaps can't remember at the mo) which ticked a few boxes in similarity, but my box has no identification on the bottom, the pattern covers  the base completely.  It just didn't 'feel' right, but then what do I know?  ;D I might be tempted to mail them a pic and ask nevertheless.
many thanks
m
Title: Positive id - Re: glass decorating technique - what is it called?
Post by: flying free on October 27, 2009, 10:36:38 PM
I just thought I would update on this with more photos and also that I have had a positive ID on my hexagonal box.
Since I first posted this, I have been back and forth intermittently, checking Loetz.com and a few other sites which have Kralik on them.
Then yesterday I happened to check again and there were some items with a very similar finish to my box. 
So I plucked up the courage to email Alfredo Villanueva-Collado with my pictures and he has confirmed it is Kralik.

I am thrilled to bits as it is possibly the only piece of Kralik I will ever own ;D . My thanks to him for responding to my email so swiftly and with such grace. 
And thanks to all who helped start the trail of id'ing especially Ivo, as I would never have found my way to Kralik without your direction of 'Czech'!

m

Title: Re: glass decorating technique - what is it called?
Post by: rosieposie on October 27, 2009, 10:57:58 PM
What wonderful news....you must be thrilled to pieces.  And of course, as ever, we have all learned something new. :thup:

I have had a lot going on family-wise over the past few months, :'( but will be back on track in a few weeks when all the dust settles and will be back to ask a few more questions and and also stick my oar in (as I am wont to do) on occasions. >:D
Title: Re: glass decorating technique - what is it called?
Post by: Anne on October 28, 2009, 12:40:27 AM
Great result M, well done! And good to see you and Rosie back on the board too. You've been missed!  :kissy:
Title: Re: glass decorating technique - what is it called?
Post by: flying free on October 28, 2009, 11:16:33 AM
thanks Anne ;D
I have a week off work so (children aside) some time to do some research and read the posts. 

m
Title: Re: glass decorating technique - what is it called? - ID = by Kralik
Post by: sandymae on May 23, 2010, 12:16:40 AM
To Flying Free, just an update on my little inkwell, have seen your new post on the V Nason box, and then the link to my inkwell, and your lovely Kralik box. :hiclp:  My inkwell is still a mystery, so was pleased to see it is similar to yours. I've posted a few more updated photos of closeups, but my colour is very dull untill the light hits it, then its a beautiful light olive.
I still have no idea just who made it, but your post has made me get it out and have another look at it. :huh:

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-12888
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-12890
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-12889
Cheers, sandymae
Title: Re: glass decorating technique - what is it called? - ID = by Kralik
Post by: flying free on January 21, 2013, 10:40:37 PM
I'm just raising this thread again to be sure I understand about this box.
Since it was id'd I've come across the same one in amber that was on ebay France and also come across information myself (can't remember where now though) that these were used by Marcel Franck.
I was browsing on Collectors Weekly and recently another has been posted that I believe is the same as mine but the taller version.  It is dark blue.  The poster listed it as Marcel Franck glass jar.  I posted on that thread to say mine had been identified as being made by Kralik (darned if I can find the reference Alfredo gave me at the moment though).
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/75787-marcel-franck-glass-jar?in=1179

Anyway, the original poster on that thread has said that his is pressed glass.  I'm pretty sure mine and his originated from the same source and I don't see how it can be pressed glass.  Am I missing something here?  Happy to upload more pictures if that is needed. I posted more pics on the page before this  but didn't include interior shots.  I'm pretty sure this is not pressed  :-X
m
Title: Re: glass decorating technique - what is it called? - ID = by Kralik
Post by: Lustrousstone on January 22, 2013, 08:05:06 AM
It cannot be pressed glass; you cannot press something narrower at the top because you cannot get the plunger out and pressing such random cracks would require a very expensive mould. It is mould blown but then much Kralik production was
Title: Re: glass decorating technique - what is it called? - ID = by Kralik
Post by: flying free on January 22, 2013, 11:21:29 AM
 :-* pheww, thank you.  I was just beginning to question anything I've learnt over the past few years :)
m