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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => Malta Glass => Topic started by: chopin-liszt on March 06, 2010, 01:24:51 PM

Title: What is the earliest date found on a Mdina Fish?
Post by: chopin-liszt on March 06, 2010, 01:24:51 PM
Hi everybody!

I was wondering if folk who possess any Mdina Fish vases with dates written on them would be kind enough to help conduct a survey to find the earliest date inscribed.

These would be slightly later than the Michael Harris period.

The earliest date on any of mine is 1976.

I am asking, because I am wondering if there was a break in the production of this shape of vase between Michael Harris leaving in 1971, and Joseph Said making them again.

Title: Re: What is the earliest date found on a Mdina Fish?
Post by: glassobsessed on March 06, 2010, 11:41:23 PM
The seller of this fish vase (http://cgi.ebay.com/SUPERB-HUGE-ERALY-MDINA-FISH-VASE-MICHAEL-HARRIS-1973_W0QQitemZ120539364169QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Art_Glass?hash=item1c10b4bb49) states it is signed Mdina Glass 1973.


John


Didn't Mr Harris leave in 1972?
Title: Re: What is the earliest date found on a Mdina Fish?
Post by: Carolyn Preston on March 07, 2010, 01:33:53 AM
Okay, I know I know nothing about glass, but could someone enlighten me about the definition of eraly?  :24:

(possibly before written word???)

Carolyn
Title: Re: What is the earliest date found on a Mdina Fish?
Post by: chopin-liszt on March 07, 2010, 01:07:31 PM
Eraly is clearly a new word, defining the period Michael Harris was still making fish vases (and in the Joseph Said shape too!) at Mdina after he left in 1971......

I'm afraid I can't read the inscription, John. What I can make out looks a little like Eric Dobson's writing, but I'm afraid I can't count this piece - the marks are not verified.

It's correct and verifiable dates I'm looking for, only.  :P
Title: Re: What is the earliest date found on a Mdina Fish?
Post by: glassobsessed on March 07, 2010, 02:41:37 PM
Sue, what makes you think there may have been a break in production of fish vases?

Again, I was under the impression Michael Harris left Mdina in 1972 not 1971.

John

Title: Re: What is the earliest date found on a Mdina Fish?
Post by: chopin-liszt on March 07, 2010, 03:04:41 PM
You're right, '72 it was. (I'm not good at dates :-[)

It's just a sort of observation I want to confirm, John. MH made "nearly all" of the Fish when he was there, (to quote Mark Hill, p.30) I don't know how many other makers were competent enough to do these. I am just wondering if there might have been a break in their making until Joseph got good enough to give them another go.

With the introduction of date marks following his (MH's) departure, I have seen them on the cube vases, (my earliest being '75) on large Ming globe vase (again, my earliest is '75), on chalices (I'm not climbing up to check) and on Fish vases, but the earliest date I've seen on an actual Fish, is '76.
Title: Re: What is the earliest date found on a Mdina Fish?
Post by: glassobsessed on March 07, 2010, 03:25:20 PM
I would be surprised if there was a long break in their production, only because if there was it could be like starting from scratch again. Some of the tips and techniques needed to make them might be forgotten, much harder to achieve after years of absence I would guess.

John
Title: Re: What is the earliest date found on a Mdina Fish?
Post by: chopin-liszt on March 07, 2010, 03:40:30 PM
I think a major problem was actually handling the weight of the glass - a combination of both strength and skill.

But I still strongly suspect a break in production, and until proved otherwise, I remain suspicious.  :P
Title: Re: What is the earliest date found on a Mdina Fish?
Post by: glassobsessed on March 10, 2010, 06:49:25 PM
The seller (of the 1973 Fish vase) has added better photos, the date can now be seen clearly: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120539364169&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

John
Title: Re: What is the earliest date found on a Mdina Fish?
Post by: suzygpr on March 10, 2010, 07:06:07 PM
Do you think 'someone' might have had a chat to the seller then John, someone who's still buzzing from their MH sig find?  With a bit of luck we'll get to see some of her other fishes too, I've given her the link to this thread as she has more than one fishy at home!  Would be great to see some more pics.

The sig on the one on ebay looks to be Dobson, and a genuine inscription, which is a relief after a few dodgy ones around lately.  Sue has an intriguing thought on this one too - I'll leave her air it as it was something that hadn't occured to me.

Suzy x
Title: Re: What is the earliest date found on a Mdina Fish?
Post by: chopin-liszt on March 11, 2010, 03:00:50 PM
Well I agree, it certainly looks like a genuine Dobson Signature.
But he didn't make glass.

So the odd thought I had was, could it possibly be by Vicente Boffo? He stayed on for a little while after Michael Harris left, I don't know how long though.

This '73 Fish is a BIG beast.

Bigger than most of the Joseph Said signed ones I've seen, all of them being '76 or later.
It's also quite a distinct sort of shape - the same shape as another I've seen pictures of ,which purports to have a '73 date.



Title: Re: What is the earliest date found on a Mdina Fish?
Post by: Couzie on January 20, 2011, 10:00:31 PM
Hi i'm new to this forum, someone that maybe able to help with your questions/queries is a gentleman called Ron who runs Artiusglass, Ron knows alot about Mdina and Isle of Wight Glass and had the great fortune to know Micheal Harris and his Sons personally, i hope Ron can answer your questions about the dates and any time lapse between production.
 :sun:
Terry
 
P.S if it's convenient Ron will be standing at the Shepton Mallet 3 Day Antique and Collectors Fair and he is always happy to answer any questions people have, he also has some fine examples of Mdina and Isle of Wight Glass for those that are interested.
Hope this helps.

Terry    :sun:
Title: Re: What is the earliest date found on a Mdina Fish?
Post by: Anne on January 20, 2011, 11:17:40 PM
Hi Terry and welcome to the board. Ron is well known and respected here already, but thanks for adding your information about him and the upcoming event. Events can be publicised in out Glass Events forum which links to the front page calendar - so feel free to add details there for us. Enjoy the board!
Title: Re: What is the earliest date found on a Mdina Fish?
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 21, 2011, 12:56:30 PM
Hi and welcome!  :hi:

I know Ron and Ann quite well, thanks!  :thup:

I'm on his mailing list and always make time for a chat at fairs - thanks very much for your "heads up" to him though! I'm kind of trying to delve a bit into the time period at Mdina and in Malta shortly after Michael Harris left - sort of '72 - '75-ish.
Info about this period is proving very elusive indeed.
However, my observation from bits which have come onto the market, has been that there are Fish vases dated from '75 onwards. I haven't, I don't think, ever seen a post-Harris one dated '72, or '73, (and now my brain's failing me, don't quote me on this) I think I may have something dated '74.

I am simply wondering if there was a period of no Fish vase production, shortly, post-Harris.
Title: Re: What is the earliest date found on a Mdina Fish?
Post by: Couzie on February 19, 2011, 10:05:30 PM
I'm glad you already know Ron & Ann, have you ever thought about emailing Micheal's sons at Isle of Wight Glass or asking Ron to ask if they know anything during this period, i would imagine they may still have had contact with the studio as being the previous owners, maybe mother also may know something of worth to help you cause. Terry
Title: Re: What is the earliest date found on a Mdina Fish?
Post by: chopin-liszt on February 22, 2011, 12:32:18 PM
Thanks, Terry. I believe that the Harrises were rather caught up in finding new premises and setting up other glass studios at this time - Kerry Glass and Isle of Wight Studio Glass for a start, they were a bit too busy with their future to pay too much attention to what happened at Mdina right after they left. I am a member of the IoWSG collector's club and have met Elizabeth and Tim, and Jonathon too, quite a few times.