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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => Malta Glass => Topic started by: rocco on December 31, 2011, 12:43:28 PM

Title: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on December 31, 2011, 12:43:28 PM
I got Mark Hill's book "Mdina and IOW glass" as a Christmas present. :rah:
This seems to have triggered my success in finding Mdina pieces in Vienna (which isn't too easy, unfortunately).

Yesterday I found the beautiful, rather tall (35 cm) bottle vase with clear strapping, and today a lovely side-stripe/lollipop mix vase, 21.5 cm high, with lots of silver chloride.
Both have the engraved "Mdina" mark to the base, the latter also has a paper label.
I know, neither early or rare, still any info on them regarding date of production, designer etc. very much appreciated :)

I have read in this thread (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,11574.0.html) Mark Hill's comment on another side stripe/lollipop vase, so I guess production should date to late 1970s to early 1980s?
Similar bottle vases are rather hard to find on the net, here (http://blackcountryhistory.org/collections/getrecord/DMUSE_BH1154/) is one in orange with blue strapping a little bit shorter than mine, dated to 1979.
I added 2 pics in backlight -- Mdina glass IMHO looks best that way :sun:

Thanks,
Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: Anik R on December 31, 2011, 01:06:27 PM
Very nice pieces, Michael, though I know nothing about Mdina. John (glassobsessed) has got beautiful photos of  early (https://picasaweb.google.com/Johnmj100/EarlyMdinaGlass) and later (https://picasaweb.google.com/Johnmj100/LaterMdinaGlass) Mdina glass in his albums.  Worth taking a look and drooling over.  :)
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on December 31, 2011, 05:17:28 PM
Thanks, Anik! :hi:

I love to look through John's albums (what a collection! :mrgreen:)
Unfortunately I have never seen any early Mdina glass here in Vienna...

BTW, while searching the board today I saw that you have a nice piece of Mdina as well :)

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: Anik R on December 31, 2011, 05:56:08 PM
I had a nice piece of Mdina... actually I had two very nice vases (the lobed one, and a 'fish' type one).  But I gave them away.  C'est la vie. :)
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on December 31, 2011, 06:24:39 PM
I just cannot part with anything (and neither can I decide which area to focus in -- so much beautiful glass from all over the world :)).

All the best for 2012 to Krakow from Vienna! :rah:
Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: Anik R on December 31, 2011, 08:25:06 PM
Who says you have to focus?  A little of the best from all over the world sounds wonderful.

My very best to you as well! :kissy:
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: glassobsessed on January 01, 2012, 01:41:00 PM
Working out a date range for any given bit of Mdina is often tricky, a combination of shape and colour along with any signature is usually how I guess, labels can help too.

I would guess that your attenuated bottle could be anytime from the mid seventies (any signature may help narrow it down a little). The side stripe vase has a pattern I think of as 'chevrons' and I thought that was quite late in date but your vase has a paper label (rather than plastic) and I now notice there is a paperweight illustrated in the book with this pattern (page 51) and Mr Hill says production of this pattern started in the late seventies. I know it continued in use until recently as I used to have this bottle dated '06: https://picasaweb.google.com/Johnmj100/LaterMdinaGlass#5430029823498309282

My grouping of glass made at Mdina as either 'early' or 'later' is fairly arbitrary and mostly reflects my interest, 'early' is 1968 to 1972 - while Michael Harris was still in charge and later is everything that followed, much of it wonderful but just not what I have chosen to collect.
I used to collect everything that took my fancy and I could afford but I ran out of display space and I do not like storing glass in cupboards where it can't be seen so I decided to specialise in Harris and Hoglund. Now I am having to thin out the Hoglund (space again) and I plan to just keep his figurative pieces.

Much Mdina does look good when backlit, the rest seems to work well against a dark background so the surfaces reflect. The same item can look quite different according to how it is lit - see the two photos of this fish vase.

John
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 01, 2012, 02:31:08 PM
My definition of early is slightly wider than John's - I include as early-ish the period after Michael Harris left, but while Dobson and Boffo were still there - so I include up to around '75-'77-ish, while there were still some seriously exciting and adventurous (and often large) pieces being made, loosely based on MH's designs.
So John would preclude the cube-shaped solifleur vases and the massive 2-tone amethyst and purple strapped bottles, but I don't.

(I think the cubey things are basically "Cut-Ice" vases, just not flattened)

I think (but even I don't trust that!) that your large strapped bottle is probably from the early-ish period (I don't think after Said took over fully in '75 that big bottles were made so much) and I have been told that the Chevron pattern is Said's design - but I thought he designed the horse head things, then discovered recently that he didn't.

Anik,  :hi: how kind of you to give your bits away - just remember, what a friend has, is never lost.  :usd:
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on January 01, 2012, 03:02:09 PM
John, thank you so much for your detailed answer!

I would love to find a piece from the Michael Harris period one day, but am quite happy with my few beautiful later pieces :)
One problem here is that nobody knows Mdina glass, so the sellers usually want quite high prices ("don't know what it is, but it is signed" ;D)

Pics of the different marks:
1. Bottle vase mark
2. Side stripe vase mark
3. Mark on one of my favourite Mdina pieces -- vase with bright blue casing, green top, swirling pattern (https://picasaweb.google.com/107330317087089352634/OthersUnknown?authkey=Gv1sRgCN-gn4Ga6creDw#5666680352678211522) --  is this what is called "Ming" pattern? (The mark looks rather similar to the one on the bottle vase).

Edit: while writing Sue has posted as well, thanks a lot! -- What I remarked is that I saw quite a few of those side stripe vases with narrow top on the net, while there don't seem so many of the taller bottle vases around; at least I couldn't find another one like mine... (BTW, the colour is more turquoise in reality, looks too blue in my pic in the first post)
And nice to see that Anik's Mdina pieces have found a good home. :rah:

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: Anik R on January 01, 2012, 03:14:47 PM
Oh wow... John, I would have never thought your two pictures are of the same vase.  And I didn't really believe you until I saw that both have got a small air bubble near the left bottom side, and both have got 3 dark spots near the top right.  It's amazing what light can do.  I'm terribly impressed.

(By the way, I think I got confused... one of my vases was a common lollipop and not a fish... or maybe I'm still confused... I really don't know what the difference is, not that it matters now.)
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 01, 2012, 04:44:23 PM
The script on your big blue strapped bottle is a fairly early script - though the "drilling from side-to-side" to form the letters is more mid- later '70s, Michael, and while the script on the side-stripe can be read as "Molina", it's an earlier interpretation of the "molina" way of writing it.... and the tons and tons of silver chloride used in it says more '70s than '80s to me...... if any of that makes sense!

Anik - John's showing off (and why not, John :kissy: if you've got a beautiful beast like that!) - that's a very, very scarce shape of Fish  - with a "button" rim. They normally have a long tapered neck.

The features that make it a Fish are the big partial casings of "wings" on either side of a (normally) already cased lollipop shape, with thin strands of glass crossing over between the two "wings".

It represents looking at a Manta Ray from above. :thup:
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: glassobsessed on January 02, 2012, 09:27:54 AM
Showing off? Surely not. ;D

The style of the Mdina signature on your bottle is what I think is found from the mid seventies probably well into the eighties. Whoever it was who did the signing must have signed thousands and thousands of items. The Mdina on your blue green vase is in the same hand (3rd photo).

The side stripe signature I think is later and by another distinctive 'hand', possibly eighties into the nineties. The dates are mostly guess work on my part though.

Anik, a simple rule of thumb: fish vases have those trails (well, very nearly always) and lollipop vases don't.

John
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on January 02, 2012, 09:44:02 AM
Thanks, Sue and John!
It's nice to learn more about Mdina glass from you (even if it seems difficult to find out the production date for these post Harris pieces :))

BTW, only when taking the base pic I realized that in my side stripe vase the i is missing in the mark -- it says Mdna ;D

And yes, John's early fish vase is absolutely stunning -- in any light.
I have this tall "earthtones" vase (https://picasaweb.google.com/107330317087089352634/OthersUnknown?authkey=Gv1sRgCN-gn4Ga6creDw#5640705361349220690) which looks really beautifully translucent when backlit, but a little dull and opaque otherwise...

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on January 21, 2012, 12:16:33 PM
And another nice Mdina vase for my collection! :)

Cylindrical vase, 20 cm high, tortoiseshell pattern with lots of streaky iridescence.
Again not very early I think, but quite unusual with the clear glass being greenish-yellow, and the brown mottling stopping in the lower third of the vase...

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: glassobsessed on January 21, 2012, 02:13:24 PM
Very likely mid to late 70s, tortoiseshell looks fantastic in direct sunlight. The slightly raised 'foot' is a nice touch and I am not sure it is found much on later production.

That is the beginning of a proper collection....

John

Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on January 21, 2012, 03:00:12 PM
Thanks a lot, John!

Still a very humble collection, but at least it is nice that I am able to find a few Mdina pieces here at the fleamarkets...

My other tortoiseshell vase (https://picasaweb.google.com/107330317087089352634/OthersUnknown?authkey=Gv1sRgCN-gn4Ga6creDw#5640705366599796770) has the usual blueish-grey casing, that's why I wondered about the colour of this one.

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 21, 2012, 03:51:55 PM
I might disagree just a little with John about the Tortoiseshell - I think there is a possibility it might be early to mid '70s.
I have these two vases, one is Mdina, the other is early IoWSG. There is a very squished flame pontil mark on the base of the IoWSG. (It took suzygpr to spot it - I hadn't!).
The script looks the same as yours.

There is considerable variation in the colour of the clear glass used in the earlier days. Cullet had to be imported, it wasn't the best quality and they hadn't worked out how to improve it.
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on January 21, 2012, 04:13:02 PM
Thanks a lot, Sue!
Interesting how similar the two designs look.
Your Mdina vase seems to have the same raised foot as mine...

@John: this toroiseshell bowl (https://picasaweb.google.com/Johnmj100/LaterMdinaGlass#5430029744808536482) in your gallery has a remarkably similar pattern to mine.

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 21, 2012, 04:30:42 PM
We are of the opinion that the raised foot does indicate earlier. (aren't we, John?).
I have a lovely tortoiseshell cylinder with a raised foot, but the "Mdina" script is not fine like the two we've got illustrated here - it's been done with something that jiggles from side to side, making the script thick - more indicative of mid-later '70s & into the '80s.

And a glorious Earthtones cylinder, with a raised foot and the very fine script.

(Sorry, the feet don't show and I don't have script pics available atm. You'll just have to take my word for it!)
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 21, 2012, 04:34:19 PM
 :pb:  That Earthtones vase is the second bit of Mdina I ever bought.
I knew next-to-nothing about glass when I found it - it called to me across the room, but I honestly thought it had been carved out of a lump of agate!
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on January 21, 2012, 04:52:48 PM
They are both lovely, Sue!
I like the Earthtones pieces a lot -- especially with this more random pattern.

There was a rather nice Earthtones fish vase on German ebay last week, but it went above my limit...

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: Anik R on January 21, 2012, 05:30:11 PM
I've decided to feel sorry for myself a little... now why don't these gorgeous earth-tone pieces ever find their way to Poland?  They are so perfect in every way.  They're masculine and glorious in their un-fussiness.  And they seem to make you want to look at them and hold them up to the light.

All three of you are terribly fortunate... John and Sue, I know you've got collections that would make the world jealous.  Michael, you seem to be going down the same happy road.  (Maybe all for the better... more Czech items for the rest of us. ;))

Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: glassobsessed on January 21, 2012, 10:08:48 PM
Although Tortoiseshell was developed by Mr Harris, I wonder how much was actually made before he left Malta? Presumably not much, I doubt if this Verdala bowl (https://picasaweb.google.com/Johnmj100/EarlyMdinaGlass#5429986556111520306) is really from MH's time but I can hope....

As for early, middle and late in terms of a decade I would split it 3:4:3, so early would be 70 to 72, middle would be 73 to 76 and late would be 77 to 79. On that basis mid to late seventies would be my guess. Sue and I rarely seem to disagree on the substance but we love to argue about how we describe it! ::)

John
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 22, 2012, 10:05:50 AM
Earthtones does appear in several distinct " hands" or styles of execution -  I only have two bits as good as that one, where the brown "painterly" ribbons are of a stained-glass sort of quality, with both red and brown streaks -and it looks as if its made of agate.

Another style, also glorious, is one we have attributed to Vicente Boffo, because it appears in Malta Decorative Glass pieces - and it's absolutley utterly distinctive.

Pics later - I've got a long difficult (but hopefully very constructive and successful) day ahead of me!
John, do you have pics of the fabby yellow Boffo cylinder (footed but unmarked) you recently gave me?
It's not on display yet. It's in my back "smoker's room", where I can study it close up and dribble over it several times a day, before finding a shelf space for it!

I don't think we're really arguing, John - between us we manage to cover and state all caveats and doubts. It's constructive and airing all possibilites and differing opinions.
That's how proper research is done. :thup:
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: glassobsessed on January 22, 2012, 07:22:32 PM
I still have three photos of it Sue, I can email them to you or post here.

John
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 22, 2012, 07:25:55 PM
post away, if they're handy, if you would be so knid, John!

(I am not on the planet after conducting several interviews today........ :ooh: )
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: glassobsessed on January 22, 2012, 08:25:57 PM
 :hi:
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on February 17, 2012, 02:58:32 PM
And one more Mdina piece for my humbly collection. My first one in the brownish amethyst colourway...
13 cm high, has a paper label and a wonky "Mdina" vibro mark.

Shape is not very special, but I like the colour (an "earlier" one, I think? :usd:)

Any more info greatly appreciated as usual!

Michael

BTW -- that cylinder vase is gorgeous!
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on February 17, 2012, 03:08:51 PM
Unusual colouring, but a later piece, I'm afraid. The colouring would suggest early - but the "Molina" mark and the widely flared rim say much later.

And yes, this cylinder is just glorious, isn't it? I was *so* pleased it didn't fit John's collection!
It's still in my "smoker's room", being admired several times a day.
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on February 17, 2012, 03:19:08 PM
Thanks Sue -- that was fast!
I am happy with "unusual but later"  ;D

Do you know how long this colour was used?

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on February 17, 2012, 03:27:00 PM
Ummm - no, in a word.
This bit of yours is telling me that it was used for a bit longer than I originally thought!  :smg:
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on February 17, 2012, 06:17:35 PM
So my purchase was quite useful ;D

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on February 17, 2012, 07:14:13 PM
Yes, indeed it was!  :thup: :thup: :thup:
(Now, all I need to do is remember about it!)
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on July 22, 2012, 11:34:35 AM
Long time has passed since I found my last Mdina piece...

Today I came across this really lovely inverted lip bowl, chevron pattern (so not an early piece, but never mind 8)), beautiful colours with a big streak of iridescence running around it. 15 cm diameter, and quite heavy at 900 g.

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on July 22, 2012, 11:53:30 AM
Ok, time for me to go green - that is the nicest and bestest Chevron bit I've ever seen.  :P
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on July 22, 2012, 02:28:31 PM
Thanks Sue.
I knew you would like that iridescent streak... ;)

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on October 07, 2012, 11:33:11 AM
Two more additions to my humble Mdina collection:

1. nice small stoppered square ink bottle, mottled brown with loads of silver chloride and iridescence, 14 cm high
2. side stripe vase, 13 cm tall, rather subtle colours (plus many air bubbles, and some purple frit and streaks), slightly raised button rim, unsigned.
Has a paper label I haven't seen before, smaller than the ones on my other items; the logo and script look a little different as well, and are about one third smaller.
Rather earlyish I guess (hope...)?

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on October 07, 2012, 01:46:22 PM
 ;D
I'd say nice and early-ish, buttony rim, loads of colours, bubbles, interesting, aesthetically pleasing... all you want in Mdina!
For "brown glass" I also love this Tortoiseshell design - the things the silver nitrate does with the glass are so beautifully defined in them.
The actual colour of glass used is red - silver nitrate turns this into brown, but you can end up with shades inbetween, and some lovely streaky colour effects . and often you end up with the most gorgeous hazy blue cloudy effect in the clear casing as well as iridesence on the outside.
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on October 07, 2012, 03:00:40 PM
Thanks Sue! :-*
I love that there is so much going on in that small ink bottle, it shows so many different colour effects depending on the way you look at it (unfortunately not easy to capture on a pic).

Any more info on that small (unusual?) label on the side stripe? -- I am sure you have seen it before...

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on October 07, 2012, 04:45:19 PM
No, not much to say about the label, sorry.  :-[
I've got loads of them. I collected early Mdina.  ;)
It does look just like the one depcited in Mark's book, described as "A late 1960s-1970s Mdina Glass paper label", I think the plastic ones came in in the late '80s-early'90s, there being some overlap because of using up stock, I'm not aware of these particular paper labels coming in different styles. There are the other ones with thick black outlines and often a biro written number in them - but they tend to be in conjunction with the label depicting the tower.
I mostly wish they were on the bottom so they don't interfere with the appearance of the glass, I tune out when it comes to plastic labels; I don't remove labels though. (although might be tempted to if it's a plastic one)
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on October 07, 2012, 05:53:30 PM
Thanks again, Sue!
I can assure you the paper label on this one is considerably different to the paper labels on my other pieces (and all I have seen so far). Those are 10 x 16 mm, the black square with the tower being 7 mm wide, whereas the one on this side stripe is only 8 x 13 mm, the black square 4.5 mm wide.
I had hoped this would perhaps point towards a certain time frame, but obviously not...

And yes, some were applied rather unfortunately ;D >> Link (https://picasaweb.google.com/107330317087089352634/OthersUnknown?authkey=Gv1sRgCN-gn4Ga6creDw#5767969427499689010)

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on October 07, 2012, 06:07:12 PM
John might have been more observant than I am...  ;D
To me, your side-stripe is a lovely early one, based on its appearance.
(and what's a few milimetres between friends anyway?  ;) )
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: glassobsessed on October 07, 2012, 06:48:03 PM
The actual colour of glass used is red - silver nitrate turns this into brown, but you can end up with shades in between, and some lovely streaky colour effects .
Ooh, I did not know that the starting colour was red. :-*

John might have been more observant than I am...  ;D
Absolutely not, I had not noticed... :-X  Weirdly, not one of my bits has that type of label but from now on I will start to pay attention. ;D

I have moved a few labels, I have only tried it with paper labels though. Carefully lift the label with a razor blade (or similar) held at a bit of an angle so you ease it under the label. Paper labels can be stuck back on with a tiny bit of PVA glue. I have relocated quite a few labels on my Isle of Wight pieces this way and they all ended up on the base.

John
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on October 08, 2012, 09:28:12 AM
I've just located 3 paper labels, all 10 X 16 mm, all on post-Harris designs, but still earlyish and good.
I have also located a large stoppered bottle in the streaky red with blue strapping design, (some folk call it orange and green  ??? ), which has on its base the remnants of a bit of paper stuck to it. It is rectangular, with rounded corners, all the print or writing on it is long gone, I've never known whether it was a label or the remains of a price tag which might have been stuck onto it at a later date.

But it measures 13 x 8mm.  ;D
I suppose I can now safely assume it was a Mdina label, so I can tell you this size of label was being used in the late '70s into the '80s possibly, as that is when Mark's book puts this design.
Image of red with blue strapping on p. 53, described as orange with green/blue trailing, the photograph does make it look orange, it's very washed out.  My pieces are all red.
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on October 08, 2012, 01:58:42 PM
Thanks John and Sue (for measuring :) )

So the small label doesn't seem to indicate much. I guess whatever label available was used to mark the items...

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on October 09, 2012, 08:28:26 AM
For early Mdina the rule of thumb was just use whatever is available, if there is time available, if staff are available, if equipment is available......  ;D

But thank YOU Michael  :-* - your measuring and questions brought the different sizes of label to light, got me looking, and from the pieces the labels are on, now we all know the answer - which we hadn't considered before.
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on October 21, 2012, 11:40:41 AM
And another really nice piece of Mdina glass for my collection :D
Base unmarked, 21 cm high.

Once again not early, but I don't mind at all; the vase is a really nice example from this range -- the decor looks very painterly...

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on October 21, 2012, 11:54:27 AM
I believe that one's called "Sea and Sand", Eric Dobson's Tiger pattern around a frothy yellow ground. Not MH early, but still good early.
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on October 21, 2012, 02:40:04 PM
Thanks Sue!
Sometimes it is earlier than you think ;D

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on November 25, 2012, 01:36:56 PM
I am quite happy with this addition to my Mdina collection (though I am aware it's nothing special). But I never thought I would come across one of those knot sculptures here in Vienna.
16 cm high, unmarked; has a nice splotch of amethyst in it, too :)

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on January 26, 2013, 10:45:05 AM
I think my Mdina collection has improved quite a bit:
big cylinder vase (25.5 cm high, 10.5 cm wide), circular polished pontil mark with Mdina "signature" -- I guess my first early piece :)

As it seems very similar to >> this one (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,50134) I would think "Rosenthal" pattern, and Michael Harris period?

One nice feature: if held against the light the turquoise pattern becomes translucent and purplish-brown (see pic).

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: Greg. on January 26, 2013, 11:24:54 AM
Hi Michael - Very nice addition to your Mdina collection! :) A large Rosenthal cylinder vase and fairly hard to find.

These I think are all fairly early and were introduced around 1971 I think, they were also produced after Michael left i believe, although not for that long. This design looks great in the light, personally i think its one of the nicest designs that  they produced, certainly a favourite of mine. Congratulations on a super find!  :)

Greg
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 26, 2013, 12:42:11 PM
It looks suspiciously like Dobson's handwriting in the polished pontil mark on your fabby Rosenthal cylinder...  ;D
(from what I can make out of it)
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on January 26, 2013, 03:00:12 PM
Thanks a lot Greg and Sue!
Fabby, isn't it :D

Sorry for not capturing the mark better...

What about the strange effect of the opaque turquoise swirls turning purple against the light? - Is it always happening with this colour?

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 26, 2013, 03:25:35 PM
That's the beauty of glass and colour - it does things quite differently to paint.  ;D

When you see blue glass, the chemical make up of the glass is such that blue light is reflected back to you from it - it absorbs all the other colours.

When you see yellow glass, it is yellow being reflected back at you, all the other colours are absorbed.

When you look through glass which is a layer of blue over a layer of yellow, all that gets through is the red/purple end of the spectrum - because both blue and yellow wavelenghts are being reflected off the other side, only reddy purple gets through it.
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on January 26, 2013, 07:56:03 PM
Thanks Sue for explaining the matter further.
I still am not sure if I understand it properly, but I do appreciate your effort ;D
At least the colour change does work - and looks great.

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on February 28, 2013, 04:59:00 PM
And one more, rather early, too I think:

purple pulled ear vase, lots of iridescence.
It is so dark that it looks almost black; even held against the light there is only a faint hint of the amethyst base colour visible...

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on February 28, 2013, 05:22:59 PM
The very best sort of ear-pull!
A lovely egg-shape with the sculptural effect of the pulls enhancing rather than detracting overall, completed perfectly with the small and neat button rim; the very dark amethyst background really shows the iridesence and other silver chloride effects up - and the whole shape sends the silver effects off at differing angles, swirling and sweeping over it.
It's elegant - not a word which can often be applied to early Studio glass.
The button rim would suggest pre-'Boffo; the whole thing says; "Michael Harris made me," to me.
Everything about it is just "right", isn't it?  ;D
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on February 28, 2013, 09:08:52 PM
Ooh, more praise than I had expected :D
Thanks a lot, Sue!

I just wished it was a little bit more transparent to see the interior better...

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on March 01, 2013, 11:10:36 AM
I've just got hold of mine to compare - and to try to see if I can see through it.
I've got more iridesence (tons and tons  ;D ) - but the positioning of the lugs on yours is so much better than mine, the profile is a far, far more pleasing sculpture and a much stronger artistic statement. :P

I've held it up to the light and peered trhough the rim. I can see shades of amethyst and purple (yes, proper deep purple, but this must be something to do with colours overlapping and the physics of transmission and refraction rather than a deep purple glass.
The clear casing on mine is very thick - and it has that diffuse electric blue cloudy effect through it.
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: Nemmie on March 01, 2013, 12:45:52 PM
His has shoulders, yours doesn't. Just seems to fall straight away.

Were these always made in various sizes, my earliest examples seem to be smaller than the later ones but this could be just a quirk of my collection?



Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on March 01, 2013, 01:56:15 PM
They're all different shapes and (within limits) different sizes, Nemmie.  :)
The photo of mine above was taken from a slightly "above" angle, so the pulls look almost like shoulders themselves.
The ones I describe as having shoulders are the bigger, later ones (you're perfectly correct) - like this one, where the shoulders are practically horizontal, under a wide flanged rim. Again, the photo is from a "slightly above" angle.

The positioning of the pulls can make a huge difference to the overall appearance!
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: glassobsessed on March 01, 2013, 01:59:10 PM
Sue has just answered the question but what the hell, here is my two-penneth worth anyway.

Quite a few of the earlier examples are a bit smaller than the later ones, as per usual for Mdina though it is not a hard and fast rule. Through the 1970s the necks and rims tended to get taller and wider too.

John
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on March 01, 2013, 03:54:50 PM
Thanks for the additional info, greatly appreciated!

Forgot the stats: mine is 15 cm tall and weighs 1.2 kg.

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on August 02, 2013, 07:34:27 PM
After some time two additions to my small (but evergrowing) Mdina collection:

1. my first fish! ;D
One of those with fat blue wings and tiger pattern, 18.5 cm high and very chunky.
It is marked "Mdina 1979".

2. nice tortoiseshell bark vase, 21 cm high, unmarked

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on September 14, 2013, 03:51:11 PM
And two more:

- lovely chunky bowl, according to Mark Hill's book a Michael Harris design, but probably produced later
- not very attractive but big (= 26 cm high) sculpture ;D

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 14, 2013, 05:13:23 PM
I like the bowl much better than the sculpture - but I do think these bowls are absolutely stunning, they just cry out to be fondled. :)
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on September 14, 2013, 05:47:12 PM
Thank you Sue -- the bowl is really lovely with a lot going on in it, Silverchloride trails, big and small bubbles, iridescence...
The sculpture looks as if something has gone wrong, and so they made one bigger sculpture out of two smaller ones ;D
But it was very cheap, so here it is.
I wonder if it is meant to be a sailing boat?

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 14, 2013, 06:30:37 PM
And everything is going on a different depths inside it, isn;t it? The feel of the thing, cupped in your hands is just lovely.

I don't think there is ever any telling whether or not sculptures are supposed to be anything or not. I do have some, even a great big MH signed one, but I still don't think too much of many of them.  :-[

I do know of one lovely one. It's signed and it belongs to suzygpr here, (although she has been very busy elsewhere for some considerable time) it's got great big bubble porthole windows in it.
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on September 14, 2013, 07:03:37 PM
I do like >> my small sculpture (https://picasaweb.google.com/107330317087089352634/MdinaIsleOfWightGlass#5814829538803020082) a lot, but I think this big one is a little strange, with the triangle top part stuck in the amorph stand...

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: glassobsessed on September 14, 2013, 09:11:41 PM
That base is a variation I have not seen before with these sculptures from Mdina.

John
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chriscooper on September 14, 2013, 09:56:15 PM
Suzy's........

https://picasaweb.google.com/guinearescue/SuzySGlass?noredirect=1#5446681709574122594
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on September 15, 2013, 04:07:40 PM
Thanks John and Chris, Suzy's sculpture is great!
I am still happy about any piece of Mdina glass I come across here (especially at 2,- Euro), even if it is a wonky one ;D

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on October 27, 2013, 12:09:43 PM
One more: nicely proportioned cut ice lollipop vase, 18 cm high.
I guess almost impossible to date (according to Mark Hill's book these were made into the 90ies) -- does the script help?

Thanks,
Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on October 27, 2013, 01:09:15 PM
That Mdina mark is in Eric Dobson's writing - I don't think these were made as late as the '90s.

And Dobson's script would put this one in the '70s. :)

Wolfie sent me a copy of a picture of Vicente Boffo, taken in '85, with (I think) Wolfie's brother,  and there is one of these sitting on the shelf behind him.
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on October 27, 2013, 01:23:50 PM
As usual -- thank you so much Sue for the additional info!
Very nice that the writing can actually be attributed to Eric Dobson :)

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on October 27, 2013, 02:29:55 PM
 :)

It's quite distinctive - and not very common.
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on January 11, 2014, 02:15:39 PM
Another humble addition -- Mdina carafe with Maltese cross prunt, 21.5 cm high, unmarked.
Circular polished pontil mark, no pronounced shoulders, so rather early production I guess?

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 11, 2014, 02:33:48 PM

Are you sure it is only 21.5cm tall? Not nearer 11.5 inches?

It looks like one of the really early, great big ones, which are not humble pieces at all.  :P

I don't know when they stopped doing the round polished pontil marks.
I don't know if it was straight after Michael Harris left, ('71) or if they continued up to '77, when Boffo left.
They are not common.  :)
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on January 11, 2014, 03:50:33 PM
Thank you so much, Sue!
I measured it again, it is really 21.5 cm tall ;D

I think it is very nice, just would prefer if it had a little bit more colour in it -- like Greg's wonderful version (10 inches high) >> http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,45756.0.html (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,45756.0.html)
According to Mark Hill's book bottles and vases were not mould-blown (yet) in the early days of Mdina, maybe that is why heights are varying...

As to when polished pontil marks were discontinued -- no idea; in the book Mark Hill states that they were used for a short period from 1969 on.

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: Lustrousstone on January 11, 2014, 04:47:53 PM
The tall ones have relatively longer slimmer necks. Two of mine have polished pontil marks and one has a polished bottom, see  here (http://lustrousstone.co.uk/cpg/thumbnails.php?search=mdina+carafe&submit=search&album=search&title=on&newer_than=&caption=on&older_than=&keywords=on&type=AND)
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 11, 2014, 05:14:43 PM
I've got a short amethyst one with a longish looking neck. There was variation in the shapes - much more so early on.
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: Nemmie on January 12, 2014, 05:56:14 AM
I have a small thin example in blue with a ground and polished pontil mark.
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on January 12, 2014, 11:42:56 AM
Thanks, lovely to see all those different examples...
The amethyst ones are really nice, too :)

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on January 16, 2014, 04:14:07 PM
Very nice addition to my small Mdina collection: fish vase, dated 1976 :D
21 cm high, 25 cm wide, appr. 2.2 kg, some nice streaks of iridescence...

I like these angular ones more than the very square (later) ones, so I am extremely happy.
Quite similar to >> this one (https://picasaweb.google.com/Johnmj100/LaterMdinaGlass#5752080783269148850) in John's gallery.

Michael

Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 16, 2014, 04:22:53 PM
I do agree with you!
I do think these are the nicest Fish vases.
(in general. There are some individual exceptions and I'm not including the very early small ones. ;D )
I don't care that they're a later date, or a "variation on a theme" and not specifically a Harris design, but they are the most interesting and the most pleasing shape.
And the best ones are all "boring brown" (Tortoiseshell)
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on January 16, 2014, 07:37:43 PM
Thank you, Sue! ;)

I noticed that this shape seems to come mostly in brown (Tortoiseshell), the only teal-blue one I have seen is in Mark Hill's book.

Michael

Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 16, 2014, 07:51:38 PM
I've got a blue one, very boring. But I think I've got about 5 of these! They're all different.
I can only track down pics of 2 right now, and a really special one - unsigned, but it's MH. It's a round one.
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on January 17, 2014, 10:32:38 AM
Thanks for the pics, Sue -- all lovely!
Interesting, the first MH fish vase in brown I have ever seen...

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 17, 2014, 12:19:43 PM
I am going by the info in the book, which says that round ones are MH.
But I've had a particular fondness for this piece since I got it - before the book came out, I have always believed it to be by him - the book only confirmed my opinion.
But it isn't signed, I have no solid proof it is his work.  But I adore it.  ;D

I've tracked down my other two - but the light is not good enough to take pics just now.
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on February 26, 2014, 06:43:45 PM
Not as early (or spectacular) as John's new fish vase, but still rather early I think, and extremely beautiful:

tricorn shape dish / shallow bowl, sandy ochre with turquoise spiral pattern, 23 cm diameter, and quite substantial.
I love how the colours and pattern change when viewed from different sides or when backlit...

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on February 26, 2014, 06:48:44 PM
That looks like Eric Dobson's writing on the base - another "goodie" bit to add to it.  ;D
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on February 27, 2014, 09:12:33 AM
Thank you, Sue!
I think this is one the loveliest Mdina pieces in my collection :D
And as far as I have seen these flat dishes are rather uncommon - I guess because they were not produced over a long period, maybe until the mid 1970s?

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: glassobsessed on February 27, 2014, 10:23:19 AM
They are lovely and harder to find, maybe only made for 3 or 4 years, perhaps 1972-75 or similar (just guess work really).

John
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on February 27, 2014, 01:20:14 PM
I know from this (first image) piece that Boffo was known to have made some at least, of the design with these three spirals on.
Th most common shape is the "bullet bowl", I'm not absolutely sure of the dates. They were made (shortly) after Michael Harris left, I don't know if they were made during his time there, or if this is one of his designs.
I do have a bullet bowl I suspect was made by MH, but I could be wrong. (it's the one centre front in the second, group image.)
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on February 27, 2014, 03:40:17 PM
Thank you John and Sue for the additional info!
Lovely collection of this pattern -- and I can see why you think the one in the centre is special...

IMHO the colours in the dish look much better when viewed from above ;)

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on February 27, 2014, 05:31:49 PM
 :-[
Sorry the pic is all out of focus. It's one from my archives. I haven't forgotten I still need to photograph my two other brown Fishies.

I do agree that the dish looks best from above, with light coming through it. You get purples where the teal and yellow do their "light tricks" together. ;D
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on June 19, 2014, 02:27:00 PM
Two more...

I was very pleased to receive this beautiful earthtones fish vase as a birthday present :)
Dated 1979, 23 cm high, 20 cm wide.

And a strange dish I aquired a few weeks ago, egg shaped with tiger pattern surrounded by clear glass. Paper label, not marked, 25 cm long, 20 cm wide, 6 cm high.
I would think from the eighties?

Any info or comment highly appreciated as always.

Thanks,
Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on June 19, 2014, 02:35:43 PM
I would describe the design as Marble, rather than Tiger. It's the later, flatter way of executing the design used in it, despite it having the paper label.
That is rather a spectacular and lovely (Said, I believe) Fish!
(And I still neeed to photograph my tortoiseshell ones. I've got them out, just been tripping over them... :-[ )
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on June 19, 2014, 05:17:00 PM
Thank you Sue!  :-*
The fish vase is lovely, and your info that it is probably by Said makes it even more special to me.

No need to hurry with pics of your tortoiseshell ones, whenever you find the time...

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on June 19, 2014, 06:05:05 PM
The very angular square shoulders are quite specific to Said, and in the mid-later '70s, apart from Boffo, he was the most experienced maker. He really did have a natural talent for the craft, and learned very rapidly. I believe he got hold of "the knack" a fair while before his brother Paul, who started at the same time, (and ended up going on to set up Mtarfa.)

However, the execution of Earthtones is not Boffo's in your Fish, and Boffo's Fish tend to be smaller than Said's with a much more rounded corners on the square-ish shape.

Not forgetting that the date on your Fish is after Boffo left... which I did. :-[ )

(just went daft all over the house searching for my Boffo Fish... then found it under the desk the pc is on, at my feet. I was beginning to think I'd imagined owing it.) I'll add it to the Fish I need to photograph for you!


Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on July 11, 2014, 02:09:07 PM
This beautiful "Cut-Ice" lollipop vase arrived yesterday.
Unmarked. Hight just short of 25 cm, lots of amethyst in it, too...

Looking at Sue's post >> here (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,32803.msg178351.html#msg178351) similar to the ones in Pic. 2, so mid to late 1970s I would think.

Absolutely no wear to the base, so not moved around much during the last 40 years ;D

Thanks,
Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: glassobsessed on July 11, 2014, 02:39:57 PM

Looks more early 70s to me. Lovely rounded shape and crizzled too, very nice, smooth well executed neck looks very Harris to me.

Very fine.
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on July 11, 2014, 02:53:09 PM
Yes. I'd agree this is by MH.
Said did make them as big as this, but they do lack the finesse.
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on July 11, 2014, 03:10:31 PM
Wow, I didn't see that coming :o

Thank you so much, John, Sue! My first MH piece then...

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on July 11, 2014, 03:16:44 PM
It is just our opinion. We both have quite a few things, unsigned, that we are quite happy to believe are MH's work. But we couldn't prove it, not with 100% certaintly.
It is a process of elimination, and judgements made on observations, which add up to give rise to that opinion.
Then it's just a matter of being happy with it and enjoying living with it. :)
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on July 11, 2014, 04:19:32 PM
I enjoy living with such a beautiful piece of glass regardless if it was made 1971 or 1978. :)
But your opinion (that of two people having spend so much time collecting and researching the work of MH and Mdina glass) makes it a bit more special.

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on March 21, 2015, 05:06:05 PM
Quite some time since I added a new piece of Mdina glass to my collection; but this "earthtones" cylinder vase was worth waiting for!
(I guess Sue will like it ;D )

Stands 19 cm tall, flat polished base with Mdina script.

Huge amounts of strapping over yellow bubbly background.
Lovely colour change when lit from behind.

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on March 24, 2015, 12:38:49 PM
I do indeed. Early script, fabulous colours, loads of stuff going on. A magnificent example of Earthtones. ;D
But a different "hand" I think, to my 2 magnificent/favourite examples of Earthtones, which I think are the same hand as each other. I do have some lovely bits, similar to yours though, it's another "hand" that works it wonderfully. ;D
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on March 24, 2015, 04:46:58 PM
Thanks, Sue :)

You have got some beautiful earthtones pieces there -- I like that your cylinder vase is so translucent.

Earthtones really seems to vary a lot: I bought this cut ice lollipop together with my cylinder vase above, same Mdina script on the base, but the colours are totally different -- the brown bands are dark even when held against the light, and the background is more "beige" than greenish yellow...
Still a nice piece, and when searching the web I realized that lollipop vases in this pattern seem to be rather uncommon.

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on March 24, 2015, 06:04:14 PM
They are. Even less common is a cut-ice lollipop in Tortoiseshell, I have the only one I've seen. ;D
Earthtones really does vary a lot, some bits vastly superior to others.

Your lollipop has what looks like what I would describe as ribbons, an appearance that is a bit more common than others, but still fairly old. The very newer versions of Earthtones are very flat, with a very pale creamy background and a much duller brown decor. They're somewhat more delicate and pretty-looking than being the strong statement the earlier bits are. IMNSHO.  ;)

Pics are of the Tortoiseshell lollipop and of a new, small Earthtones cylinder, with plastic label.
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on March 24, 2015, 06:46:27 PM
Oh, lovely lollipop :P
Nice slim neck. And lots of silverchlorides.

I was quite surprised when i couldn't find another Earthtones lollipop on the net; I had thought they were as common as Tiger ones.

And you are right -- the more recent "Earthtones" decor looks much flatter than that in the older pieces.

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on March 24, 2015, 07:27:34 PM
My only Earthtones lollipop is MDG. I do not have a Mdina one. :P ;)

I like the way the bubble of colour is "suspended" very high in the Tortoiseshell one. It was quite an exciting find for me, at one of the big fairs.
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on March 25, 2015, 03:49:37 PM
Thank you Sue -- my Earthtones lollipop must be really scarce then ;D

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on March 25, 2015, 04:00:06 PM
 ;D Might even be bordering on the r-word.
I've got a Ming one, very similar to your Earthtones. It's the only Ming one I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: rocco on March 25, 2015, 04:37:30 PM
That is a great lolliipop vase :o
(And really very similar shape to my Earthtones one)

Michael
Title: Re: Two Mdina vases, further info appreciated :-)
Post by: chopin-liszt on March 25, 2015, 04:56:43 PM
They really are very closely related, aren't they?
I might even suspect the same maker for both of them. ;D