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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => China & Taiwan => Topic started by: stew2u2 on February 26, 2012, 08:36:17 AM

Title: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please ID = Chinese
Post by: stew2u2 on February 26, 2012, 08:36:17 AM
bought this on a whim i can remember seeing something like it before but did not know where. i have looked online and in my books and the only name i can find is dino martens. i would be very greatful if someone could confirm or point me in the right direction please.
thanks
stew
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/stewtoyou/th_DSCF1961.jpg) (http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/stewtoyou/?action=view&current=DSCF1961.jpg)
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/stewtoyou/th_DSCF1959.jpg) (http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/stewtoyou/?action=view&current=DSCF1959.jpg)
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/stewtoyou/th_DSCF1952.jpg) (http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/stewtoyou/?action=view&current=DSCF1952.jpg)
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/stewtoyou/th_DSCF1951.jpg) (http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/stewtoyou/?action=view&current=DSCF1951.jpg)
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/stewtoyou/th_DSCF1950.jpg) (http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/stewtoyou/?action=view&current=DSCF1950.jpg)
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/stewtoyou/th_DSCF1949.jpg) (http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/stewtoyou/?action=view&current=DSCF1949.jpg)
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please
Post by: Max on February 26, 2012, 12:01:41 PM
I think these are by Formia, Murano.  Not 100% though I expect someone will be able to confirm or deny.  :thup:
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please
Post by: Lustrousstone on February 26, 2012, 12:34:02 PM
I think these are very modern and appearing in every "antique" and gifty centre with a variety of different friends.
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please
Post by: stew2u2 on February 26, 2012, 01:08:25 PM
thanks for looking and the info
When i looked at it and saw the dates for dino martens i thought it looked to good but you do get them looking new sometimes. do you think it is still murano but new
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please
Post by: Max on February 26, 2012, 01:13:01 PM
It's true Christine I've seen them too.  I did wonder about them but thought I'd seen this shape as Formia on here....although I couldn't find it.
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please
Post by: Lustrousstone on February 26, 2012, 01:45:04 PM
I don't think they're Murano.
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please
Post by: Max on February 26, 2012, 04:50:32 PM
I've been meaning to photograph the modern ones for some time...I'll do it next time I see them.  It'd be good to have a record of the different shapes.
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please
Post by: rosieposie on February 26, 2012, 08:47:45 PM
Have a look at this  thread stew2u2, it might help.
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,42496.0.html
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please
Post by: TxSilver on February 26, 2012, 10:39:39 PM
Sorry, but the bird is Chinese. They made a lot of different pieces with this filigrana pattern. Still pretty.
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please
Post by: rosieposie on February 26, 2012, 10:59:50 PM
I'm sure you are right Anita,  I haven't read it all through again,  but I think that was the conclusion we came to with that thread. But as Anita says, some of them are pretty and do seem to sell reasonably well.
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please
Post by: johnphilip on February 27, 2012, 08:43:16 AM
Yep lots of various ones turning up in charity shops some with bar codes on .
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please ID = Chinese
Post by: incazzatonero on February 27, 2012, 03:08:51 PM
Never a piece of Dino.
But I vote 100% for Murano!
0 % for chinese!
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please ID = Chinese
Post by: stew2u2 on February 27, 2012, 09:50:41 PM
i didnt know who made it but the only 2 i found online said they were dino thats why i came on here. usually someone puts me right. its going on ebay as murano style bird at a low starting price then i cant be accused of ripping anyone off. still a nice bird whoever made it.
thanks for the input i still love this site and hope to help when i can.
stew
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please ID = Chinese
Post by: incazzatonero on February 27, 2012, 10:15:41 PM
Hi!
The book from Marc Heiremans with the title:
"DINO MARTENS"
Catalogue
Werkverzeichnis
Liste del Opere"
(Arnoldsche Art Publishers)
shows some similar items as yours (for example site 174).
So,
now I have to reverse my opinion and I will vote now:
the item is:
100% Muranese
0 % Chinese
Perhaps 30 % Dino Martens ?!
When I look at your pics, I see a mastership of glasswork!
Very good and nice item!



Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please ID = Chinese
Post by: TxSilver on February 27, 2012, 11:19:12 PM
I checked the page. Nothing like your bird there, but I'm sure the Martens' birds are the ones the Chinese modeled theirs on. Yours is Chinese from a couple of years back. The Chinese glass makers change their lines every few years, so they are not made now. There are still plenty of them out there. They are often sold as Murano on eBay. The Chinese often class them as "Murano" in their catalogs, i.e. they are made in the style of Murano glass.

The Martens birds are very different. The bianco nero canes are true black and white, instead of purplish. The canes are applied to the outside of the glass, and not the inside as you see for the Chinese bird.

I am confident your bird is Chinese. No guessing was involved. Still pretty.
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please ID = Chinese
Post by: johnphilip on February 28, 2012, 12:21:56 AM
If you look in the market place below you will see what i know is a genuine Dino Martens bowl in the black and white ,this is unmistakable and has been verified by two of the top London dealers in Murano/Italian/Venetian glass and is in several books,
 their was also an identical one at the Cambridge glassfair on Sunday .
                                                        You will clearly see the difference in the canework
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please ID = Chinese
Post by: incazzatonero on February 28, 2012, 09:57:27 AM
Hello Anita.
I do not know weather you have an other book of Marc Heiremans.
What you are saying is not correct.
On side 174, Archives,
pic nr. A157, Model 5907 and 5909
you will find similar birds!
Most of the Dina Martens animals are footed,
but 5907 and 5909 seemed to be unfooted.
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please ID = Chinese
Post by: incazzatonero on February 28, 2012, 10:00:40 AM
There are also simalar items on page 178
A 192
Modell 6480.
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please ID = Chinese
Post by: Lustrousstone on February 28, 2012, 11:51:47 AM
Lothar, these birds and similar animals are being found new in almost every UK "antique" centre...
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please ID = Chinese
Post by: incazzatonero on February 28, 2012, 12:08:32 PM
when I look at your collection (album),
I have some doubts that your judgment is right.
Please look for example : to the eyes or how the beak was made....
that is mastership of glasswork
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please ID = Chinese
Post by: Lustrousstone on February 28, 2012, 12:25:15 PM
If you have any comments on the items in my gallery please feel free to email me or use the contact form.
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please ID = Chinese
Post by: incazzatonero on February 28, 2012, 04:20:58 PM
Hi Lustrousstone!
I beg you pardon!
You are right: on the GMB is not the right place for any comments on the items of your gallery .
Excuse me.
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please ID = Chinese
Post by: Lustrousstone on February 28, 2012, 04:45:25 PM
I would be interested in correcting any errors though, so please get in touch
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please ID = Chinese
Post by: TxSilver on February 29, 2012, 02:39:24 AM
I'm afraid that the assumption is that Chinese can only do bad glass. Some of their glass is excellent and worthy of buying at the correct price. And their vintage/antique things are often priceless.

Some of the other pieces made with this filigrana pattern show the "contemporary Chineseness" better. For example, the penguins. They have very clumsy black feet and awkward bills. However, the little bird in this thread is a nice piece, IMO.
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please ID = Chinese
Post by: stew2u2 on February 29, 2012, 06:50:42 AM
thanks anita
i thought it was a nice bit of glass. i know chinese glass has a bad reputation but i have seen some very good and some tatt. i reckon its all about names if you cant put a name to something it hits the value hard.
thanks all for looking and all the input. like i have said i will put it on ebay as murano style at a low starting price then if someone buys it its because they like it. but then if they buy it cheap and put it on as a real murano with name ill be very bloomin angry  :grrr:  ;D
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please ID = Chinese
Post by: rosieposie on February 29, 2012, 08:43:14 AM
Good morning stew2u2,  I collect the little Chinese birds,  the ones that have very pretty marbleing in the glass.  I think tyey are so pretty and charming,  but see so many advertised as IOW. Langham, Murano and the like.  I have even seen them listed as Wedgwood and one had Mdina engraved on the base!

If I see them listed like that I always tell the seller,  not because I am pedantic.....after all, I know what they are,  but because the eBay myth continues if no one bothers to correct the attribution.

I get three types of reply,  Rude and curt with an assurance that it has been in their Great grandfathers collection for years and originally had a Wedgwood/Langham/Murano label and please would I not bid if I don't believe they are telling the truth!! 
The other two replies are either, 'thanks for the info,  very interesting'....but they do nothing, and 'Thanks for the info' and they change the description and category. 

I will leave you to guess which replies I get the most of,  and interestingly, the ones properly described are usually the ones that sell!!

But photograph yours well, and if you do see it relisted as Murano,  you can let the seller know, you know,  if you see what I mean.

It is easy to do nothing,  but nothing changes if we all take that attitude...I love these little birds, and have no conflict with them being Chinese, as Anita says,  some of them are very well executed.
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please ID = Chinese
Post by: stew2u2 on February 29, 2012, 06:51:24 PM
thanks rosie i like your birds.
i have put it on as murano style and that it could be chinese. as i dont have glass running through my veins yet that is why i ask on here i will put a link to this and they can make there own minds up.
thanks again for looking.
stew
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please ID = Chinese
Post by: TxSilver on February 29, 2012, 07:04:43 PM
Sorry, stew. The listing looks a bit dodgy with the insinuation that maybe it is Dino Martens, even if it is just through writing that others have listed it as that. It not only may be Chinese. It is.
Title: Re: murano dino martens glass bird paperweight conformation please ID = Chinese
Post by: stew2u2 on March 01, 2012, 06:06:58 PM
hi changed description
thanks
stew