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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: glassobsessed on April 02, 2012, 05:01:14 PM

Title: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration. ID = Stuart
Post by: glassobsessed on April 02, 2012, 05:01:14 PM
This littel posy vase has me completely stumped, it looks like cranberry glass with twisted canes that have been pulled into feather like decoration. It has a satin finish that does not extend to the base and a cut and polished rim. About 9cm tall and 10cm in diameter, fairly thinly blown and it seems quite well made to me.

Help! Any ideas?

John

Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: ahremck on April 03, 2012, 10:53:18 AM
Wow!  What a lovely item.  I have no idea who made it but I do I would like one just like it.

Ross
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: flying free on April 03, 2012, 04:57:01 PM
This reminds me a lot of the kind of vases I saw at Broadfield House, all beautifully perfect in the trails etc. It's gorgeous. 
m
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: glassobsessed on April 03, 2012, 05:20:48 PM
Yes it is pretty and the satin finish makes it nice and tactile too.

It took me quite a while to work out how to describe it, hopefully I have been accurate.

John
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: Lustrousstone on April 03, 2012, 05:39:58 PM
It's very hard to work out how it was made because the white is in perfect horizontal lines but looks as though it was part of the yellow trails. Check it under a UV light for me and feel the inside. I wonder if  a trailed and combed "starter" has been blown into a horizontally ribbed mould, reheated and the blown in a smooth mould.
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: glassobsessed on April 03, 2012, 05:57:03 PM
No reaction at all to UV.
It feels quite smooth inside, no evidence remaining of a ribbed mould. The yellow and white decoration forms a very thin layer on the outer surface.
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: chopin-liszt on April 03, 2012, 06:42:38 PM
Is it causing meoptical illusions?

It looks as if the surface is "stepped" from a horizontally ribbed mould.
Is that just the combination of the horizontal white lines over the yellow ones, or is it real?
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: Lustrousstone on April 03, 2012, 06:44:38 PM
It does that to me too, but the outline is smooth.
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: chopin-liszt on April 03, 2012, 06:48:19 PM
So it's weoptical illusions.......  :-*
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: glassobsessed on April 03, 2012, 07:03:50 PM
It is quite smooth on the outside too, the only place I can feel any deviation from smooth is where the lines bunch up tightly together on the shoulders just below the neck.
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: Baked_Beans on April 08, 2012, 01:58:34 PM
This link to an item on ebay is probably of no help what-so-ever.....but I think it shows a ribbed example of a similar technique . Makes you go goggle-eyed after a short time.  :o It might be a clue, perhaps yours is Clichy ....or perhaps it isn't !!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390356778150?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

I posted it 'cus it's fab. like yours....

ta Mike.
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: ahremck on April 08, 2012, 02:52:37 PM
What is disgusting Mike is that I can't justify buying that - it is indeed a stunner.

Ross
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: Baked_Beans on April 08, 2012, 03:40:59 PM
Yes, it does have a couple of lines that look like cracks  to the base (it seems) or they might be deep scratches as the seller states no cracks . Tempting though for a Clichy lover !

I think John's is really lovely & I will follow this thread with interest...I hope it can be identified !

ta, Mike

Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: Tigerchips on April 08, 2012, 07:20:42 PM
Is this not a Bohemian shape though? It's almost the same shape as a Harrach vase hence why i thought it might be Bohemian?
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: glassobsessed on April 08, 2012, 08:06:19 PM
Wow, what an elaborate effect. No idea if that perfume is Clichy or not but a quick google threw up a vase and a jug with the same technique also attributed to Clichy/'Clichy style'. I think those lines are probably scratches, it's magnified in the photos and only a wee thing.

Interesting, especially to see when this kind of stuff was fashionable.

John
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: Bernard C on April 08, 2012, 08:50:12 PM
John See my old topic http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,23747.0.html

Here two sets of canes were added to the parison.   In this case with a twist between, maintaining the axis of the piece, but the parison could have been orientated in any direction after the first set of canes was added.

Apologies for my smashed up post, caused by the recent removal of the image tag, forced upon GMB management by a handful of selfish members abusing the feature.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: glassobsessed on April 09, 2012, 12:49:48 PM
Thanks Bernard, fascinating the complex results that can be achieved with such a relatively 'simple' process, not that I wish to under play the skill and finesse that is required!

John
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: flying free on April 14, 2012, 05:37:24 PM
There's something vaguely similar to this in Truitt's and I'm wondering if yours could also be Franz Welz?
and it's probably not significant, but I spent a long time at Broadfield House checking the rims of vases to try and find any that were fine ground or cut and polished and I had a hard time finding any that weren't fire polished.  I've no doubt that having said that, there will be slew of replies telling me that many English vases have cut and polished rims  :), but I couldn't see any.
m
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: glassobsessed on April 14, 2012, 07:21:46 PM
I don't have a copy of Truitt's so can not compare. I am planning on popping in to Broadfield house though next month for another look around, hoping there may some sort of clue that may be useful there. Interesting re cut and polished rims, not something I had considered. I don't think this has been cut down, just judging by the proportions but never say never.

Not finding much online attributed to Welz that is similar in style.

What strikes me about this vase is it's precision, it is very well executed.

John
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: flying free on April 14, 2012, 07:43:16 PM
No I'm not suggesting it has been cut down, it looks like it was blown from the top and cut and polished at the rim as you said.  But I didn't see any (mainly English) vases at Broadfield house that didn't have a firepolish finish on the rims - as I said though, I'm probably wrong.
m
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: flying free on April 14, 2012, 07:51:37 PM
http://www.thegildedcurio.com/item-402.html
this is I think the same decor as one of the three vases I was thinking of and this decor (I'm 99.99% sure)  is pictured on page 131 of Truitts as Welz.
The other two are in a similar vein but different decors.
m
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: glassobsessed on April 14, 2012, 08:08:14 PM
Interesting attribution - Welz or Stevens and Williams. It looks satinated too, the time frame and sort of overall style may well be similar. Just need to find the right ball park. Rome was not built in a day.. ;D

Check this one out, quite close: http://www.thegildedcurio.com/item-401.html

John
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: flying free on April 14, 2012, 09:15:23 PM
yes very interesting, because another vase incredibly similar to that decor you've just linked to,  is also in Truitts page 131 as Welz.    Both that one and the other one I linked to (and was I believe an identical decor to a piece id'd as Welz in Truitts), have organicly shaped curvy handles on in the Truitts volume. 
m
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: glassobsessed on April 15, 2012, 10:15:16 AM
I can see that I have a couple more books to add to the 'to buy list'. Are the Truitts volumes considered to be well researched?

John
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: Lustrousstone on April 15, 2012, 12:55:33 PM
I don't think any of those are made in exactly the same way. If you look at the white it is spot on horizontal on every row. The yellow is pulled but that doesn't explain the white.

The Gilded Curio (Ailsa) generally knows her stuff. The Truitts' books are pretty well researched but as is inevitable, do have some errors. M if you are going to quote the Truitts you should say which book, as there are two.
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: flying free on April 15, 2012, 01:09:04 PM
yes sorry I knew that and should have gone back and quoted - Collectible Bohemian Glass 1880-1940 by Robert and Deborah Truitt.
Christine I can see what you mean and they aren't made in the same way. 
Also, I have been looking through Gulliver's 'Victorian Decorative Glass British Designs 1850-1914' and there are some vases in there which have a cut and polished rim  :-[

Without wishing to divert the thread (sorry John) I must just say though that the last vase linked to by John on The Gilded Curio, I am pretty certain is the same decor as no 6 page 131 in Truitt's Bohemian Glass 1880-1940, and it is classified in there as Welz  :-\

m
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: chopin-liszt on April 15, 2012, 01:12:15 PM
 ;D

I can't look at any of them closely - they jiggle around and switch rapidly between different sorts of optical illusions for me - it's quite headachey/Bridget Riley...
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: Lustrousstone on April 15, 2012, 01:13:27 PM
But not everything in Gulliver's is British, unfortunately
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: flying free on April 15, 2012, 01:26:11 PM
mmm - there lies the rub.
m
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: glassobsessed on April 15, 2012, 08:26:27 PM
The yellow is pulled but that doesn't explain the white.

The white and yellow could be on the same cane. Take a flattened cane which is mostly yellow but has a white stripe on one side, twist it and perhaps this effect can be achieved once pulled?

John

[Mod See John's next post for explanation of how it was actually done.]
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: glassobsessed on November 11, 2012, 06:53:12 PM
I saw another of these vases today for sale at the National Glass Fair, similar shape except it was tall and thin instead of short and wide like this one. Exactly the same pattern and now I know how it was made I want to remove my previous post. :-[

Both vases were made by Stuart, date around 1890 give or take ten years. Being the sceptical sort I asked the seller how he knew it was from Stuart. He told me that when Stuart closed he was allowed to see all their pattern books and to take notes. At that I stopped looking at all the wonderful glass on offer and realised I was talking to Mervyn Gulliver (name tag to the rescue...). The pattern is achieved by pulling the white threads, the yellow is simply trailed over the top afterwards. Armed with that nugget I can now see (when holding it just so) the yellow overlaying the white and cranberry. Simples. ;D

John

Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: flying free on November 11, 2012, 07:06:03 PM
ooh glad you found that out.  Hope you had a lovely day?
I think I read somewhere that Mervyn Gulliver had produced additional volumes on glass printed privately - I think someone on the board has them, or some of them, so it might be in there (I think I've remembered that correctly  :-\)
I don't have them hence my trawling through Harrods catalogues for design numbers  ;D and trying to match them.  Unfortunately my references are limited and of a slightly later time period by about a decade or so it isn't in there.
I'm particularly interested in the cut and polished rim - I specifically looked when I was at Broadfield house and as far as I know didn't spot one whilst I was there.  So that is good to know.
It's great to find out new information - you should not wish to amend your posts  :)
m
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: Lustrousstone on November 12, 2012, 09:37:37 AM
Oh that one! Well done. Mervyn is a nice chap. He collects frilly Stuart baskets and showed me the one he'd picked up at the fair.
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: Jim Sapp on April 10, 2015, 02:01:16 PM
Oh my.  Great info.  How I would love to see the Stuart design books.  Thanks for alerting me to this posting.
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: Lustrousstone on April 10, 2015, 02:05:42 PM
The interweb is a wonderful thing. Here is why Jim is so happy http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/60473-fairy-lamp--clarke-model-212-twisted
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration
Post by: Jim Sapp on April 10, 2015, 02:56:32 PM
Since the Stuart design books ate not available, perhaps someone can help me research the specifics on the following design numbers:

53732   03   August   1886   Stuart & Sons   Flower bowl fairy lamps
53733   07   August   1886   Stuart & Sons   Pattern of fairy lamp shade
53734   07   August   1886   Stuart & Sons   Pattern of flower stand with fairy lamp


Perhaps one or all will confirm the twisted nailsea design, or perhaps something else waiting to be discovered.

Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration. ID = Stuart
Post by: Lustrousstone on April 10, 2015, 06:40:35 PM
According to illustrations in Gulliver from the registrations 53732 is a base with a leafy design and a row of scallops round the inner rims; 53731 is a matching shade; and 53734 is a plain three layer stand with a crimped rim and then a ribbed lamp base with a plain shade. No "Nailsea"
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration. ID = Stuart
Post by: Jim Sapp on April 11, 2015, 01:28:20 PM
Thanks for the reminder about the Gulliver book.  I should have checked it before I posted the inquiry.

I have a photo of one of the fairy lamps.  I'll dig it up and post.  It is truly a truly amazing cameo.

Thanks again.

Jim
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration. ID = Stuart
Post by: Jim Sapp on April 12, 2015, 01:58:07 AM
I have posted a photo of the Stuart fairy identified in the Guliver book.  I think most will agree it is an unusual design.  I know of only one example and would love to hear of any others. 

The posting is at:

http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/155027-fairy-lamp--stuart-and-sons-rd-53731-3?in=activity

Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration. ID = Stuart
Post by: Lustrousstone on April 12, 2015, 10:55:07 AM
That's lovely. I so rarely see fairy lamps on my travels.
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration. ID = Stuart
Post by: Jim Sapp on April 12, 2015, 11:42:49 AM
Me too.  :-(
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration. ID = Stuart
Post by: Anne on April 23, 2015, 07:40:25 PM
Since the Stuart design books ate not available, perhaps someone can help me research the specifics on the following design numbers:

53732   03   August   1886   Stuart & Sons   Flower bowl fairy lamps
53733   07   August   1886   Stuart & Sons   Pattern of fairy lamp shade
53734   07   August   1886   Stuart & Sons   Pattern of flower stand with fairy lamp


Perhaps one or all will confirm the twisted nailsea design, or perhaps something else waiting to be discovered.

Hi Jim, we have a dedicated RD No. lookup request topic here:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,52152.0.html
add the details in the requested format and it will appear as if by magic soon-ish! :)
(Thanks to Paul's fab efforts!)
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration. ID = Stuart
Post by: glassobsessed on June 15, 2015, 05:49:11 PM
Matching decoration on the following bowl so assume also Stuart, this time satin blue base and blue is trailed over the white.

John
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration. ID = Stuart
Post by: Jim Sapp on June 15, 2015, 06:17:48 PM
Yep, and somewhere there is a matching shade.  This is a base to Clarke's model 210.  Nice find!!

Jim

Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration. ID = Stuart
Post by: Jim Sapp on June 15, 2015, 07:29:25 PM
Clarke tended to group designs together that were by the same manufacturer.  Webb, Stevens & Williams, Taylor Tunnicliff, etc seemed promoted as a group.  So, if the Twisted Nailsea design is by Stuart, are the others in this series by Stuart also?  See attached excerpt from Clarke's catalog.

Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration. ID = Stuart
Post by: Paul S. on June 15, 2015, 09:14:18 PM
not being part of my normal interest area, I've haven't followed this thread, and so missed seeing the request for National Archive data.
Since 1886 falls a little beyond the range where I would normally have readily available pix (1842 - 1884) - I will need to make a visit especially for Rd. Nos. 53732-3-4.
I see Christine has kindly explained, briefly in words, some outline description of the images of these three Registered designs - although this won't mean a great deal I suspect unless you have Mervyn Gulliver's book, which shows a reproduction of the original Stuart drawings.

I don't know if Jim has Gulliver's book  -  if you do Jim then you won't need pix of the Kew images, since the author does in fact repeat exactly (albeit in his own hand drawn pictures) the Archive images.          However, if you don't have the author's book, and would like to see digital photos of the National Archive Stuart drawings of these three Registrations, do shout and I can provide these a little later this week.

Of course, I may be way too late to provide anything of interest, but thought I'd ask just in case. :)
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration. ID = Stuart
Post by: Jim Sapp on June 15, 2015, 09:45:59 PM
Yes, I have the Gulliver book and am aware of the drawings.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Satinated cranberry posy vase with twisted cane decoration. ID = Stuart
Post by: Paul S. on June 16, 2015, 11:25:01 AM
thanks - glad to hear all sorted then. :)