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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => Murano & Italy Glass => Topic started by: Jay Kaner on October 07, 2006, 11:48:21 PM

Title: A couple of questions about Flavio Poli.
Post by: Jay Kaner on October 07, 2006, 11:48:21 PM
Hi.  

I have a few vases that are, I'm fairly sure, 'Poli' designs.  What I'd like to know is, what's the chances they were actually made by him? I'd like to think the ones I have, were (Actually, for all I know they might not even have anything to do with him!!) I don't know anything about how things like this were set up

It just seems to me that there are so many 'Poli' vases (and whatever) that he couldn't have made them all himself.  Did he have other glass makers making the pieces alongside him?  Or did he actually produce that much stuff?

That was the original question I wanted to ask, but after putting a 'Poli' search in here, I'd like to know if it's right that there are modern 'copies' being made of his stuff?  Especially his 50's stuff?

Here's some piccys of my 'Poli' pieces, to give you an idea of what I like
Poliwise.

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3466

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3453

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3459

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3464

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3465

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3474

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3470

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3469

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3466

Thanks for any answers you can give me on this.  

Jay
Title: A couple of questions about Flavio Poli.
Post by: Jay Kaner on October 07, 2006, 11:57:28 PM
Hi again.

I should've mentioned in my OP that some of the 'Poli' vases I've had for a long time, but some were bought over the last couple of years on eBay.
Title: A couple of questions about Flavio Poli.
Post by: svazzo on October 08, 2006, 12:16:55 AM
Hi Jay,
Thanks for the post.
Yes, there are new pieces being made, and sold on Ebay as Polie that are new. So new I see them at the glass gallery at the Mall here in Orlando all the time. They sell the cut top vases, the pitcher shapes, geode bowls, everything. That is 1 of the reasons I no longer buy the sommerso pieces on Ebay.
There are of course those that are real, but I'd rather not mess with them at all. Just my preference.
can you tell us which pieces you have had the longest?
Javier
Title: A couple of questions about Flavio Poli.
Post by: Jay Kaner on October 08, 2006, 01:27:12 AM
Quote from: "svazzo"
Hi Jay,
Thanks for the post.
Yes, there are new pieces being made, and sold on Ebay as Polie that are new. So new I see them at the glass gallery at the Mall here in Orlando all the time. They sell the cut top vases, the pitcher shapes, geode bowls, everything. That is 1 of the reasons I no longer buy the sommerso pieces on Ebay.
There are of course those that are real, but I'd rather not mess with them at all. Just my preference.
can you tell us which pieces you have had the longest?
Javier


Hi there  :)  

That's not good news with the modern pieces  :cry:   There I was, wondering if my 'Poli' pieces were made by him or maybe one of his students, and now I'm not even sure if they're actually 50's pieces.

I'm not too disheartened because I love that style and can live with the fact that some may be modern.  But even so, it's dissapointing finding this out

These are the ones I've had a long time, years before I started with eBay.

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3459

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3453

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3464

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3470

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3466

I'll be looking at the Poli's on eBay in a different light now  :shock:

Thanks again for the help   :)

Jay
Title: A couple of questions about Flavio Poli.
Post by: svazzo on October 08, 2006, 01:53:44 AM
Hi again Jay,
Dont be discouraged by what I said. Just pointing out that there are new pieces out there in the same forms. Hopefully some of our other members can put their 2 cents in about your pieces.
Javier
Title: A couple of questions about Flavio Poli.
Post by: chuggy on October 08, 2006, 08:25:52 AM
Hi Jay
The ashtray in your 4th picture is definitely not Poli and these were mass produced in huge quantities and turn up at most boot fairs at about £5 each.
The two blue pieces in your last picture look more Scandinavian than Murano and they are also certainly not Poli.
You will find that Poli actually produced very little glass since his primary role was as chief designer so his creations were largely produced by other workers, though these include some very notable names of Murano glass blowing such as Archimede Seguso during his work for Seguso Vetri d'Arte, not to be confused with his work at his own studios.
Hope this helps a litte, the situation should be clarified greatly when the long awaited book on Seguso Vetri d'Arte is finally published, but I know they have run into a few problems and it is now not likely to hit the streets until next year, but having seen an early proof it will be worth the long wait.
Paul
Title: A couple of questions about Flavio Poli.
Post by: svazzo on October 08, 2006, 09:40:29 AM
more waiting on the book? eeeek!
Title: A couple of questions about Flavio Poli.
Post by: Laura Friedman on October 08, 2006, 04:55:08 PM
The only one that might have been produced at Seguso Vetri d'Arte, of which Flavio Poli was principle designer, is photo number 31. The rest are too "sloppy" to be produced by that company, whose trademark was near perfection.  Please don't be offended by this comment - you're pieces are very pretty.  However, the Poli pieces have extremely clean, pure lines and very architectural forms. They just don't look like your items.

Laura
Title: A couple of questions about Flavio Poli.
Post by: Jay Kaner on October 08, 2006, 10:02:43 PM
Quote from: "svazzo"
Hi again Jay,
Dont be discouraged by what I said. Just pointing out that there are new pieces out there in the same forms. Hopefully some of our other members can put their 2 cents in about your pieces.
Javier


It's ok Javier.  I'm not discouraged.  I'm really happy with the ones I've got.  They look great with all my other stuff and I really didn't expect them to be by Poli himself.  It's just the modern copies that threw me.  I wasn't expecting that!!  :shock:

Any idea why there are modern copies?  Is this something new? Something to do with his collectability since eBay came along?   Or has this been going on for a while?   And does sorta thing happen with other glass and it's designers?  Got me wondering now...  :?  :)

Jay
Title: A couple of questions about Flavio Poli.
Post by: Jay Kaner on October 08, 2006, 10:11:55 PM
Quote from: "Laura Friedman"
The only one that might have been produced at Seguso Vetri d'Arte, of which Flavio Poli was principle designer, is photo number 31. The rest are too "sloppy" to be produced by that company, whose trademark was near perfection.  Please don't be offended by this comment - you're pieces are very pretty.  However, the Poli pieces have extremely clean, pure lines and very architectural forms. They just don't look like your items.

Laura


Hi Laura  :)   I'm not at all offended by what you, or any others, have to say regarding my questions.  
It's good to know the truth behind them.  
Most of the 'ideas' I had regarding what I own comes from a lack of knowledge on my part.  
As I've said elsewhere in here before, when it comes to glass, I knows what I likes but I don't really know anything about it.  
I have quite a lot of books on 50's design that have the odd bit to do with glass, though nothing too specialist (my main area of collecting over the years has mostly been ceramics).  
Saying that though, I have always thought that the 'Poli' pieces I have were lacking that certain 'something' I got from looking at genuine Poli pieces in those books, hence my original question.

I'm not too disheartened.  The pieces I have may not be the genuine articles, but they certainly look the part on display with my other 50's stuff (which is genuine)   :)

Thanks tho' Laura for your reply.  
I do want to ask tho'... You say "photo 31" but to be honest I can't see a 'photo' 31 and don't know which one you mean? The gallery lists them as files, and file 31 is a piccy of two Scandi vases?
Title: A couple of questions about Flavio Poli.
Post by: Jay Kaner on October 08, 2006, 10:24:03 PM
Quote from: "chuggy"
Hi Jay
The ashtray in your 4th picture is definitely not Poli and these were mass produced in huge quantities and turn up at most boot fairs at about £5 each.
The two blue pieces in your last picture look more Scandinavian than Murano and they are also certainly not Poli.
You will find that Poli actually produced very little glass since his primary role was as chief designer so his creations were largely produced by other workers, though these include some very notable names of Murano glass blowing such as Archimede Seguso during his work for Seguso Vetri d'Arte, not to be confused with his work at his own studios.
Hope this helps a litte,

Actually, it really does  :D    I've never really being sure of how it all worked, like did he design and make the pieces or did others make them, etc.  

All I know is the scant info accompanying the pictures in the books I have that has his work in them.  I was surprised as to how little info I could google up on him, so it's good to find out whatever I can.


the situation should be clarified greatly when the long awaited book on Seguso Vetri d'Arte is finally published, but I know they have run into a few problems and it is now not likely to hit the streets until next year, but having seen an early proof it will be worth the long wait.
Paul


That sounds like it will be worth buying, even if it's just for the pictures  :wink:

Thanks for the reply  :)   By the way, is the ashtray Murano?

Jay
Title: A couple of questions about Flavio Poli.
Post by: chuggy on October 09, 2006, 06:47:08 AM
Hi Jay yes the ashtray is Murano. The sommerso designs of Poli has been used as the basis for vast amounts of replicated pieces over the years and these days I think that probably 80% of this type of item that comes up on e-bay is wrongly attributed either in deliberate attempts to cash in on the name or due to the lack of knowledge of the vendors. A veritable minefield for the buyers.
Most important of all with regard to your items is the pleasure you gain from them and after all that is the most important thing in any of this.
Paul
Title: A couple of questions about Flavio Poli.
Post by: David E on October 09, 2006, 04:50:55 PM
Quote from: "chuggy"
Hi Jay
The ashtray in your 4th picture is definitely not Poli and these were mass produced in huge quantities and turn up at most boot fairs at about £5 each.

I have seen one with a Romanian sticker.

The 'bow-tie' vase:
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3464

... could be Mandruzatto (http://www.mandruzzato.ve.it/) - others may be as well. Some nice pieces you have there!
Title: A couple of questions about Flavio Poli.
Post by: alexander on October 10, 2006, 12:09:39 AM
Funny thing - i came across this thread when researching a piece i found - very similar to the bowtie 3464 - only it's purple - aplogies for the picture quality!

The lable reads "genuine venetian glass made in murano italy", no knowledge of age etc but the label has a lot of wear & tear.

I found one on ebay too - here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200034542522)

The ebay listing has it as designed for Seguso Vetri D'arte. None of these vases match your piece tho in terms of beauty.

Vase :
(http://www.wilhelmsen.no/glass/bowtie.jpg)

Label :
(http://www.wilhelmsen.no/glass/genuine_venetian_glass.jpg)
Title: A couple of questions about Flavio Poli.
Post by: Artofvenice on October 10, 2006, 12:48:09 PM
Hi,
I'm sorry to tell you that those pieces are all 100% not Poli pieces.
They are in heavy glass and therefore the technique is similar to the Poli's vases, but they are an actual inexpensive production. May be made by Formia or one of the other factories producing in quantities.
The nicer piece is the photo n°3, but I don'0tn think this an orginal Poli, but it is the closer one.

Actually there are also some sommerso glass imported from China with very similar features.

Sincerely

Alex

http://www.artofvenice.com
Title: A couple of questions about Flavio Poli.
Post by: Jay Kaner on October 11, 2006, 10:14:06 AM
Quote from: "chuggy"
Hi Jay yes the ashtray is Murano. The sommerso designs of Poli has been used as the basis for vast amounts of replicated pieces over the years and these days I think that probably 80% of this type of item that comes up on e-bay is wrongly attributed either in deliberate attempts to cash in on the name or due to the lack of knowledge of the vendors. A veritable minefield for the buyers.
Most important of all with regard to your items is the pleasure you gain from them and after all that is the most important thing in any of this.
Paul


Too true.   Whatever they are, they look great.  Especially set against the other asymmetrical freeform organic 50's ceramic vases they're displayed with.  8)

And you're right, it is a veritable minefield for us buyers.  More than I realised.  I always used to think no matter what, at least they were period pieces.
Great  :lol:   Since finding this GMB (cheers Chris  :wink: ) I'm now  spending twice as long in the charity shops looking at any and all glass things, and now I'll be spending twice as long looking at Poli vases on eBay as well!!  :?   :wink:

Jay
Title: A couple of questions about Flavio Poli.
Post by: Jay Kaner on October 11, 2006, 10:14:54 AM
Quote from: "alexander"
Funny thing - i came across this thread when researching a piece i found - very similar to the bowtie 3464 - only it's purple - aplogies for the picture quality!

The lable reads "genuine venetian glass made in murano italy", no knowledge of age etc but the label has a lot of wear & tear.

I found one on ebay too - here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200034542522)

The ebay listing has it as designed for Seguso Vetri D'arte. None of these vases match your piece tho in terms of beauty.

Hi Alexander.

I think all three of these vases, yours, mine and the eBay one, are cool.  I'd happily own any of 'em!!   :D

As for the age of your vase.  Before I found this GMB I would've unhesitatingly said sometime late 50's.  Granted, that answer would've come from the heart, rather than from any fact based knowledge.  

But now, I'd hesitatingly date it...sometime late 50's  :?:

If I were you, I'd wait until somebody who knows what they're on about answers that for you.   :wink:

Jay

You should bear in mind that that heart and fact based knowledge thing still applies   :wink:
Title: A couple of questions about Flavio Poli.
Post by: Jay Kaner on October 11, 2006, 10:16:23 AM
Quote from: "DenCill"
Quote from: "chuggy"
Hi Jay
The ashtray in your 4th picture is definitely not Poli and these were mass produced in huge quantities and turn up at most boot fairs at about £5 each.

I have seen one with a Romanian sticker.

The 'bow-tie' vase:
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3464

... could be Mandruzatto (http://www.mandruzzato.ve.it/) - others may be as well. Some nice pieces you have there!


Thanks  :D  I love that 50's organic, asymmetrical style that they have.

Mandruzzato has some really nice stuff in there, though I am surprised at how many 50's and 70's style pieces they're still doing today  Nice stuff tho'.  :)
Title: A couple of questions about Flavio Poli.
Post by: Laura Friedman on October 11, 2006, 04:59:50 PM
That seller might have a couple of correct attributions, but in general his descriptions and attributions should be ignored.  He's been selling and collecting a long time, and doesn't have any excuse for calling the orange bottle "Barovier" when it clearly is not (it's most likely Barbini), and the piece Jay linked to "Seguso, Poli" when it's contemporary, by Formia.

If you want to see the Chinese sommersos, seach ebay for seller thewesternart.
Title: A couple of questions about Flavio Poli.
Post by: Jay Kaner on October 22, 2006, 01:39:22 PM
Quote from: "Laura Friedman"
If you want to see the Chinese sommersos, seach ebay for seller thewesternart.


Hi Laura.  :)   Thanks for that.   After having a look at thewesternart's stuff, I am fairly sure none of my pieces are Chinese.     None of the 50's style pieces they were selling looked original.  They all looked exactly like what they are, modern rip-offs.  Just the sort of thing you see in the TK Max's of the world and other shops like those.

Jay
Title: Re: A couple of questions about Flavio Poli.
Post by: kane_u_pain on August 29, 2010, 01:13:44 AM
I know its an old thread but an interesting one...

3466 -No
3453 - No
3459 - Possibly No
3464 - No
3465 - No
3474 - No
3470 - No
3460 - No
3466 - No

3459 possibly by another maker but more pics would be helpful...
Title: Re: A couple of questions about Flavio Poli.
Post by: horochar on September 21, 2010, 03:23:09 AM
Sadly Chuggy and Svazzo dropped off the planet, as did Laura.  Them were the good old daze!   :'(