Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests > Glass
Stuart or Harrach ?
Leni:
Just wanted to add my little contribution to this thread :oops:
Any ideas about this one? It is rather more 'lily leaf' than 'peacocks (or any other sort of) eye' (there are 3 pictures in the gallery) http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-2180
The green trails are obviously done in two trails of glass, one over the other, but they don't have the indentation. Presumably this rules out Richardson. Is it even English? :?
Does it add anything to this discussion or is it merely another distraction? :roll:
David Hier:
--- Quote from: BSevern ---The Hajdamach book shows the Webb catalog design on page 436. They show it as "Posy Bowl with 'Cat Eyes' teardrops." Design No. 27414, from 1903..............On the same page they show in the center a "Vase with three coloured teardrops." Design No. 30736, from 1907.
--- End quote ---
Well spotted Brian, you’ve really put the cat among the pigeons with that observation. Both designs clearly show the trails with tooling to the centre of the peacock eye. Obviously they did variants with and without that feature.
Looking at the pattern books they also did other different versions. These feature face-like tooling to the eye of the feather. There are also versions where the trail is segmented, like the body of a snake. They also did versions that were cut/engraved, with extra detail added to the trails.
David Hier:
--- Quote from: "Leni" ---Does it add anything to this discussion or is it merely another distraction?
--- End quote ---
Leni,
Someone posted a very similar piece earlier under this topic. Such designs can be found in the Stephens & Williams pattern books. The designs are part of a range called "Grotesque" ware. Definitely part of the peacock eye family of design.
Here is the Link to the image:
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-1765
The 'Grotesque' name could possibly come from one of the French uses of the word i.e. a fanciful style of decorative art.
For any moderators out there.....................with all the images and information included within this thread, would this topic be suitable for the archive?
You could also consider amalgamating the topic with the 'Stevens & Williams bowl - Peacock Feathers' thread.
I may be able to add some images from the Webb's pattern book in the next week, which should also be included.
KevinH:
Thanks again, David, for the additional info you have posted. I agree that this is a message that should, at some stage, be saved to the archive and would benefit from the details in the S & W thread.
I look forward to any extra images from the Webb pattern books that you can provide.
As has been shown so far, and as is often the case with decorative glassware, there is often a great deal of similarity between English and Eurpean versions of a basic design. Certainly, the Truitts showed examples of pieces with shapes (including some with "Peacock whatever" patterns) that, prior to the publication of their books, many UK fairs dealers seemed happy to attribute as Thomas Webb. And after seeing the books, labels were qucikly changed to read such as, "Harrach" or "Kralik"!
But from comments in this message, the uncertainties are still clearly with us. Mervyn Gulliver's book gave us examples of (stated) Stuarts pieces and yet, as has been shown in this message, we need to also consider Webb and S&W (plus others?) for their similar pieces. And we must not forget to keep an eye on the area of Glen's expertise - the Carnival "Peacock ..." patterns.
I find this utterly fascinating. So much so, that I am (probably!) willing to have a go at a project studying the available Pattern Books of whatever companies are relevant. But first I would need to know where to start. For instance, are the Webb, S&W etc. pattern books at Himley Hall or Kew Records Office, or somewhere else? Should my first contact be through Broadfield House? Perhaps, David, you could email me separately with any info that could get me started on a plan for such a project?
As for the piece that I showed a while ago, owned by a friend, I will hopefully be looking at it again this Saturday. I will try to get whatever details I can about the mark that is on it (which I suspect will be an etched "Stuarts").
David Hier:
When I find the time I will add images from the Webb's pattern books (if possible).
As for the similarity between English and European glass, in today's cultural climate I find such distinctions merely colloquial, but you certainly raise an important issue.
When it comes to Art Nouveau, the French certainly knew what they were doing: so a distinction between possible continental originators and UK copies would be an interesting study. Although you have to realise that a lot of companies swapped and poached designers and blowers. Complicated stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think the best way to look at the 'peacock eye' glass is to see how it reflects a stylistic trend of a period. I don’t think that any one maker started this type of glass, but manufacturers were actually following stylistic trends of the day.....i.e. Dresser and Liberty.
One thing I would like to make clear.....my parents both know Mervyn Gulliver personally and I am assured that he would not give provenance to a piece of glass, unless he had personally seen the relevant pattern books etc. If you can find a copy of his book, you will see what I mean.
As for the sources for original pattern books, I will have to check with my father (he is out of the country at the moment), but I suspect that Broadfield House would be a good place to start.
Browsing this message board, there is obviously a good deal of knowledge out there, so perhaps some kind of voluntary 'glass' 'Wikipedia' could be created. That certainly won't happen if it is left to the authorities (mesume curators etc.).
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