Topic: Stuart or Harrach ?

[BSevern]

Harrach definitely made these (several are in the Harrach and Passau museums), and also shown in the Truitt Bohemian Glass book on page 67.  Apparently so did other various English glass makers.    

I'm not sure how you would be able to differentiate between the makers on these, I suspect it was just a popular design at the time.

Brian Severn
www.Glasscollector.net

[BSevern]

Hi,

I believe these were made by more makers then Harrach and Stuart.  Unless someone did a deep dive analysis I think you'd be hard pressed to differentiate who made what (IMO).

I've seen a few (very few) that had the peacock medalions engraved.  These I do believe to be Harrach, but I have no factual data to back this up.  It's a hunch from other similar things I've seen from them.

Brian
www.Glasscollector.net

Glad to hear from you Brian, I was keeping quiet...I was beginning to think I'd imagined Harrach made these too!  :shock:

[paradisetrader]

Thanks for responding Brian.
Brian said

Harrach definitely made these (several are in the Harrach and Passau museums), and also shown in the Truitt Bohemian Glass book on page 67

The base of #2 in that photo in Truitt's looks very similar to Terrys.
Next to it there is one with a wavy edge but not turned over.
On the other hand all four shown look to be a single color - green only.
On Terry's one the two colors look mixed in together at the head of each tadpole.

[glasswizard]

I have also looked at the picture on page 67, Truitt's Bohemian glass book one. I agree with Peter. It takes a magnifying glass, but the second piece shows an indent at the head of the "feather" if you we can call it that. Mine also has such an indent where the blue meets the green. For my piece I am leaning more to Harrach rather than Stuart. Terry

[BSevern]

Very interesting observations.  

I have to ask - other then the Great Glass website, is there another reference for the Stuart attribution?  If it's in the Manley book, I'm not sure I'd put a lot of faith into that attribution as he shows many pieces of easily ID'd Bohemian glass as English glass, or states he wasn't sure.  In all fairness to him, there wasn't a lot of reference material on Bohemian glass when he wrote that book.  It's rumored that it was he that started the myth of the Webb "propeller" mark (which is actually a documented Harrach mark).

I'm traveling or I'd look through the Hajdamach British Glass 1800-1914 book, I vaguely recall it showing an example of one of these.  I call them peacock feather pieces, for lack of an actual factory name.

Brian

[glasswizard]

Did a look in Hajdamach and the page is 268 plate 258, but not much help. The photo is in black and white and so much detail is lost. My original attribution was from the Great glass site. Terry

[KevinH]

Thanks to Terry for the page and plate references from the Hajdamach book.

I had ooked at that earlier but missed an important point. In the text for the plate it states:

... Tall vase, Stuart Crystal

Given Charles Hajdamach's insistence on accuracy, as can be confimed by Frank for the editing of the Ysart Glass book, I trust the "Stuart & Sons" attribution for the vase as the piece was from the Stuart Crystal factory.

[But I also bear in mind the fact that a very good piece of Bohemian cut and decorated white and blue overlay glass was once believed to be by Richardson as it used to be in Benjamin Richardson's collection - Hajdamach, page 91, colour plate 8.]

I agree that since the book image of the Stuart & Sons vase is b&w it is difficult to assess the details, particularly of the coloured parts. However, under a loop it can be seen that the trails are formed as clear glass surrounding a coloured "eye". Whether that "eye" is green or blue - or both - cannot be determined. The clear glass continues as a well-moulded length to form the trail. This description fits the example I have shown.

Of the examples of this type of decoration that might be Bohemian, or those that were indeed confirmed in the Truiits' book as Harrach, they all seem to have full (or part) green in the stems of the trails, In fact most seem to have been formed in a tapering shape - akin to tadpoles.

It is the very fine, and non-tapering, form of the clear trails that I have linked to Stuart & Sons. So it would useful to know of other examples with that feature that can be identifed as other than Stuart.

My original message for my friend's vase has been updated with a note that an indistinct etched mark has now been found on the brim (I had mainly studied the base area as that was where I expected any mark to be!). When I next see the vase I will try to get images of the mark. Even if it is indistinct, it may show enough shape and form to identify it.

[paradisetrader]

This otherwise very knowledgeable seller on one in the same decorative style as Terry's is equally baffled.
His pics do show the tadpoles a tad more clearly .......
http://www.glasshound.com/harrachvase_135.html

I have invited the website owner to join in here.

[David Hier]

I eagerly await the views of anyone who may know the difference and who may also be able to confirm the Thomas Webb versions as mentioned in my other message.

My father is certain that Webbs made this type of glass. I will check out the pattern books as soon as possible.

It will also be interesting to see what the glassware is called in the pattern books (S & W and Webbs). References have been made on this board to 'Cairngorm'. Since Cairngorm (in Scotland) was associated with the Arts & Crafts movement, and the design obviously belongs to that style, that name would make a lot of sense. 'Peacock's Eyes' sounds like more of a 'shop-floor' term to me.

Let's see what some research can reveal.

[Glen]

The motif is undoubtedly a stylised peacock feather. It has been used both applied and moulded.

Harry Northwood made a vase known to collectors as the Tornado vase. The name was given to it by US collectors based in Kansas (Tornado Alley) in the 1960s - though another collectors' group gave it the name Tadpole vase. In fact the vase is a pressed glass version of applied peacock feather motifs.

You can see both the applied motifs and the press moulded ones, here.

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/thumbnails.php?album=30

Tadoples, teardrops, tornadoes. They are all in fact, stylised peacock feathers.

Glen