Topic: Venetian Rose Bowl

[TxSilver]

Thanks, shandianne. I don't belong to any eBay groups, but it could be worth my time to join this one. I spent a little time wading through Mount Washington and Gunderson. It's hard to say if the vase is peachblow, burmese, or both. The various sites are very confusing about this.

I found another similar piece labeled Gunderson Mount Washington -- maybe because the exact year of the piece wasn't known. I would love if the piece dated back to Mount Washington, but would be satisfied simply knowing it was Gunderson.

As I am writing, I am aware that I have little idea what I am talking about. This is a new area for me,
Anita

[shandiane78]

I don't think you have to join any kind of group. Anyone registered on ebay can post in the forums.

[heartofglass]

Definitely a good Murano reproduction of Burmese type glass, circa mid 20th century. They did loads of repros of Victorian style glass, like Burmese, m.o.p satin glass, pieces with applied decorations like cherries & flowers, even epergnes with applied flowers! I have a few of these types of items marked with Murano labels.
The way to pick them from the real Victoriana is that they are what I call "fantasy" pieces, that is, nothing quite like them was originally made back in the Victorian era- they are ultra-fancy & even more over the top than the original pieces.
For example, I own a three-trumpet epergne in satin finished millefiori glass, a fine example of such a "fantasy" item of this type. It has the shape of a typical Victorian epergne, but they were never made in millefiori glass. This epergne is Murano made & dates from the early 1970s.
Mt Washington never made rose bowls in Burmese, even though they did do Burmese items with applied decoration, & Thomas Webb's Burmese item did not feature applied flowers.
Hmmm, don't think it's Gunderson Burmese either, it's way too fancy.
Ivo, I'm surprised you would give this sort of piece a Fenton attribution. Over-decorated it may be, but to my knowledge ( & according to the reference book on Fenton Burmese that I own), Fenton never made Burmese with applied decoration like this. Add to that that it basically doesn't look like a Fenton item, anyway.
And there's nothing wrong with a bit of "over-decoration" either. Some of us enjoy it & find it beautiful.
(Sorry if this seems like a rant but I feel that "smooth" glass tends to be considered superior to "fancy" on this board at times)

[Leni]

And there's nothing wrong with a bit of "over-decoration" either. Some of us enjoy it & find it beautiful.
(Sorry if this seems like a rant but I feel that "smooth" glass tends to be considered superior to "fancy" on this board at times)

Hear, hear!      :hug: Marinka 

[Ivo]

I said "Fenton" because it is obviously American, no attribution intended. I don't consider "mid century Italian" an attribution either - i'd want to know who and when in a bit more detail. But I'd be quite happy to point at Gunderson, who did reproductions of Mt.Washington peachblow rose bowls in the 1950s in quite a dark shade - according to Johanna Billings' book.  And "overdecorated" is a stylistic feature which may identify the region is was produced in or for - not a condemnation.

[Leni]

"overdecorated" is a stylistic feature which may identify the region is was produced in or for - not a condemnation.

Good point!  Some of us are obviously too sensitive to the connotations attached to the word 'over' - as in 'over the top' or 'over = too much' 

[heartofglass]

I have both of Johanna Billings' books, the one on rose bowls, and the one on peach blow glass.
It is the issue of applied decoration on this particular item in question that I'm trying to draw attention to-yes, Mt Washington did this applied decorated Burmese in the 19th century, thus making it an "American style".
However, it also makes it a desirable target for reproductions, aimed at the American market, at the period when Victorian art glass was a hot area for collectors (unlike today) eg, the mid 20th century.
Read Ms. Billings' chapter on Italian rose bowls for confirmation. She, unlike myself, is a published author, thus lending her more credibility in the eyes of some, nonetheless she, like my humble self, is unable to name the Italian manufacturers responsible for these repro items!

[TxSilver]

I've learned not to be offended by things online. The vase is definitely over-decorated, but it is what makes it different. My original thoughts that is was Venetian was that it reminded me of the Fratelli Toso applied-cherry pieces in the way the functional canes became the stems of the decoration. I've attached a picture of one their satinized cruets.

The surface of the rose bowl is rather sleek with faint polishing lines that orbit the bowl. As mentioned before, it looks like clay. I have only owned one Burmese piece -- a Fenton -- and it felt much different than the rose bowl feels. It is difficult to say that it is Burmese without knowing more about the different types. Burmese-like may be a good term for it.

Thanks for all the input. I have a feeling that this is a rather uncommon piece. I had been considering Murano companies such as Fratelli Toso or Barovier-Seguso-Ferro because of the feet and leaves. I hope someone will identify the over-the-top decoration style. I'm glad that I enjoy glass puzzles, because this vase definitely is one.

Anita

[TxSilver]

BTW, the rose bowl has a negative black light test. The whole bowl, including the cream-colored areas, has a purple glow under black light.

Anita

[shandiane78]

So, it may be Venetian after all! Anita, would you mind if I posted it for some more opinions on the ebay board? I'm aware of the mid century Italian glass in Victorian styles, but I'm no good at spotting the difference. The people I have in mind may be able to confirm Marinka's suspicions.