Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. > Malta Glass
Cloudy Bottle
Hotglass:
A mystery cloudy bottle
Well formed (mold blown I guess) BUT has trash in it and the cloudyness seems to be ...................... a mistake ? or is it ?
End of day ? Old ? A bottle or a vase ?
Why go to the trouble of polishing the flat gound base ?
8inch 20cm
Thanks for your opinions and info
chopin-liszt:
:D Hello Ed, Thanks for you attribution of the modern day Loetz! It had us all stumped. I strongly suspect Maltese glass here. I take it it is quite heavy?
Ivo:
I suggest you clean it up (chlorine bleach will get rid of organic deposits), and take a picture of the underside. The model is a bottle vase, popular in the 60ies. If the underside is polished flat it would be a vase for certain - also, as a decanter it sucks. Possible makers: Johansfors, Kastrup, Empoli or one of the Belgians. It may have had a large hanging globular stopper at one time (check on the neck) in which case it may be by Flavio Poli.
Hotglass:
Thank you both for your comments.
I saw the similarity with 1960's bottle vases but I have never seen one of those, with this kind of clowdy glass, which is what has confused me. I'm still not sure if the cloudiness is wholely deliberate or not. Over the past 2 or 3 years I've owned it I have examined it many times, at first with a thought of getting rid of it but then, finding myself fascinated once more.
Oftentimes I will wash it, initially, to try and see if I can get rid of any more dirt from the inside to make it clearer, last time, using the little copper balls to dislodge any deposits. I fancy it has improved a little but it's hard to know if thats not just my imagination, so marginal is the difference.
The surface often feels greasy after a while. As it used to be in the kitchen I thought nothing of it but I noticed it again yesterday and last night washed the outside only.
This morning ....something very strange. With very clean hands I ran my fingers down the outside. At the neck and shoulder, where its most cloudy, it's dry as a bone, but just above half way, where it begins to clear, my fingers did an involunatry slide to the base!!! I tried it again ....same thing. Excess washing up liquid ? Or am I going nuts ?
Sue, Mdina did cross my mind, fleetingly and at 750 grams it is fairly heavy for it's size but dismissed the idea as I have seen no Mdina with this type of cloudyness or in this orangy amber. I own 6 or so pieces of Mdina but no bottle vase with which to compare it. Maybe I should get one.
Ivo, I will photograph the base. I didn't think it would be very interesting. There is what looks like normal age wear but I have no way of knowing how much age that implies. The pattern of wear suggests that the base is not 100% flat but it stands well and I cannot feel the irregularity. Photographing it to show the wear will be tricky but I shall try.
There is no evidence to suggest that a stopper hung by the neck (with wire ?). There are a couple of tool mark lines running horizontally round the inside of the neck but no roughness to suggest that a stopper was used.
I omitted to mention that there are a few very dark small irregular objects grouped together within the glass about half way down in one area. Again I am confused as the whether these are a mistake or deliberate.
All these peculiarities lead me to consider that it was a bottle of greater age to be used with a cork, cheaply and quickly made, to serve some fairly mundane function, from left-over cullet. But as you rightly point out a polished base is inconsistent with that theory.
Sometimes I think the intention was to replicate the natural irregularities found in geologial amber including perhaps the suggestion of trapped insects. But the cloudyness would not seem to fit in with that either.... would it ?
Finally, there would seem to be two layers of glass here, the first, being paler, more cloudy and prodeominating towards to top and the second darker, more orangey, perhaps completely clear, predominating towards the base. In between, in the uppar half, there are many trapped air bubbles, mostly very tiny. the larger ones look squashed flat.
Thank you for your attention and consideration.
chopin-liszt:
:D Hi, I deliberately said Maltese rather than Mdina, as Mtarfa or even Phoenician crossed my mind. have you tried soaking it in strong biological washing liquid? That will shift anything organic, along with your magic balls. It's hard to tell from your description whether the cloudy amber-like qualities are from muck or in the glass! Your description of "frit"/ impurities and bubbles makes me lean towards earlier Mdina, but the regularity of the shape makes it later-earlier (if you know what I mean!).
The only thing that puts me off Maltese is your description of greasiness. There is a thread about this at:-
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,395.0.html
I may be able to post a picture of something I have that is similar, but with a stopper, later on. It is something that I bought believing it to be at least related to Maltese glass - either Mdina/Mtarfa/Phoenician or early Isle of Wight, although I think it is a bit heavy for IoW. I won't get it until tonight, but I shall measure and weigh it!
Apologies for seeming to contradict you Ivo. I would be very happy to stand corrected by you and your far superior knowledge of glass, in the long run! I think this bears further debate. I'm very curious because of the piece I'm getting later! Obviously, correct attribution is the most desirable outcome. :D:D:D
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