Topic: Pretty Stripey pink footed, handled vase, Italian?

[krsilber]

Was writing while you replied, Pip.

Do you mean, "I HOLD NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR POSTAL SERVICE LOSS, DELAY OR DIFFICULTIES IN DELIVERY, NOR DAMAGE CAUSED DURING TRANSIT. THOSE FACTORS ARE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE POSTAL SERVICE PROVIDER AND BEYOND THE CONTROL OF THE SELLER."?  Technically, that's an accurate statement.  He's not responsible if it falls off the back of a truck and breaks. 

Maybe it's different over there, but here Paypal would never pay for something, or reverse the payment, because something arrived broken unless it could be proven that it was broken before being sent.  Here if people send with the US Postal Service they or the buyer has to purchase insurance; if that insurance isn't purchased and it's lost or broken in transit, the buyer is SOL.  Hmmm, unless the buyer can make a claim about bad packing perhaps, with photos and a description?  I don't know.

Is it different there?  What do you mean here?

it also contravenes the distance selling regulations and would count for nothing if a PayPal claim was made against them for an item broken or lost

Oy, sorry folks for going so OT! 

[Pip]

Hi Kristy, this seems to be a fairly common misconception that insurance is for the buyer - it's actually for the seller's benefit - PayPal will rule in the buyers favour if an item arrives at it's destination broken or not at all.  It's not the buyer that makes the claim with the carrier if this happens, the seller does right after refunding their buyer.  Yes, you can make a claim with PayPal for receiving a damaged item and have it ruled in your favour - there's absolutely no onus on anyone to prove *when* the damage happened.  The buyer is entitled to receive the item unbroken and as described - if it doesn't then it's the seller's responsibility to chase up compensation via the purchased insurance right after they've refunded their buyer.

That's the way it works for business sellers on eBay UK - and I'm fairly certain these rules also apply to eBay.com.  It just doesn't seem to be widely known or understood....

[Pinkspoons]

Re: the seller of the Dalian vase on eBay, maybe someone could let them know that they *are* responsible for items once they're posted...

Complete waste of time with this seller. This is the chap who, for about two years, called anything and everything that was nasty and new "Holmegaard Gull Art". I tried several times, politely, to correct him - but never got any response. In the end I just ended up excluding the word 'Gull' from all my Holmegaard searches because he was swamping the search results.

[Anne]

UK's Distance Selling Regs don't apply to auction items, only to BINs and fixed price sales on eBay and elsewhere. List of exceptions to the Regs are HERE

[krsilber]

Hi Kristy, this seems to be a fairly common misconception that insurance is for the buyer - it's actually for the seller's benefit - PayPal will rule in the buyers favour if an item arrives at it's destination broken or not at all.  It's not the buyer that makes the claim with the carrier if this happens, the seller does right after refunding their buyer.  Yes, you can make a claim with PayPal for receiving a damaged item and have it ruled in your favour - there's absolutely no onus on anyone to prove *when* the damage happened.  The buyer is entitled to receive the item unbroken and as described - if it doesn't then it's the seller's responsibility to chase up compensation via the purchased insurance right after they've refunded their buyer.

That's the way it works for business sellers on eBay UK - and I'm fairly certain these rules also apply to eBay.com.  It just doesn't seem to be widely known or understood....

Things are very different over there then!  I wonder if it's because of government regulations concerning such things.  I've heard from many many people about their broken goods and trying to get insurance compensation from the PO and about claims with Paypal; I think I would know if Paypal covered breakage in transit in the US.  I'll have to have a look to make sure...

[Pip]

UK's Distance Selling Regs don't apply to auction items, only to BINs and fixed price sales on eBay and elsewhere. List of exceptions to the Regs are HERE

Thanks for that Anne - how confusing though, they are responsible for fixed price items but not for auction items.  eBay and PayPal seem to adhere to a completely different set of rules since they do refund buyers that receive a damaged item or if it gets lost.  All I know is, as a business trader I must refund any customer if they request it for whatever reason within a set period of time.

Nic, oh it's HIM - I know the one you mean.  He's changed his photographic style of holding everything up to a window I see.

[Frank]

Hi Kristy, this seems to be a fairly common misconception that insurance is for the buyer - it's actually for the seller's benefit - PayPal will rule in the buyers favour if an item arrives at it's destination broken or not at all.  It's not the buyer that makes the claim with the carrier if this happens, the seller does right after refunding their buyer.  Yes, you can make a claim with PayPal for receiving a damaged item and have it ruled in your favour - there's absolutely no onus on anyone to prove *when* the damage happened.  The buyer is entitled to receive the item unbroken and as described - if it doesn't then it's the seller's responsibility to chase up compensation via the purchased insurance right after they've refunded their buyer.

That's the way it works for business sellers on eBay UK - and I'm fairly certain these rules also apply to eBay.com.  It just doesn't seem to be widely known or understood....

Not always true http://www.ysartglass.com/zdbk/broken1.htm as Paypal can make it too expensive for the buyer to be able to claim. I never got the 2.50 from the seller either

There was one piece of bubble wrap, old and partly flattened... kicked off a dispute with Paypal and seller offered bid amount not postage. I pointed out that due to the poor packing they should pay the whole amount. But Paypal said that I had to obtain an analysis by an independant expert with knowledge of the problem by fax and that I could not reclaim the cost of this... err hang on grrr! So I proposed a deal and the seller came back with 2.50 - accepted as any other option will cost too much. Also the seller cannot see the pictures, which I sent to 2 email addresses before putting up the web page - claims he cannot see that either 

Anyway, point of posting was not another s**tty ebay seller denouncement - but to see if anyone else has any marked or labelled Hillston Crystal.

I also tried chasing this up here but no one is interested in dealing with such cases.

[paradisetrader]

I bought a decanter from the seller in question 3/4 years ago. I got a refund from the PO which I had to claim for myself, (he did provide details & postal receipt quickly) but only for the value of the item, not for the postage I had paid.

The stopper was loosely wrapped with the decanter in one layer of very well used large bubblewrap. I could not make what pieces there were, fit together and suspiciously, there were no small glass fragments in the wrapping or in the bottom of the box. The bubblewrap had packing tape stuck to it from a previous use but was not taped or fixed in any way on this last journey. I had my suspicions that it had been broken before being packed. However, its impossible to prove and had I voiced those suspicions I would have not got his co-operation nor a refund from the PO. Oh another interesting fact was that he had sent it special delivery eventhough I had paid only for ordinary delivery.

In a similar case (different seller with low feedback) I had to take the matter to PayPal claim before I could get any response from the seller at all. Again the wrapping was loose, the box not firmly packed with filler and there were no small glass fragments.  The seller insisted I return the broken item even though I offered photos.  PayPal found against the seller but upheld their right to have to item returned which had to be done by expensive special delivery. Ultimately PayPal recovered only half the value of the item from the seller and I was also out of pocket by 2x postage. Presumably, then the seller claimed for the whole amount from the PO. The seller did not have enough feedback for buyer protection. This one was most upsetting because of the attitude and lack of co-operation of the seller. I had to conclude that the whole thing was a cynical scam.

When stuff like this happens it becomes understandable why many people steer clear of Ebay but it has to be said that these and two other cases where the sellers refunded me in full without question or delay, have been very much in the minority, representing less than 1% of the items I have bought on Ebay over the past 6 years.
Pete