Topic: Bernard: Vesta Venetian?

[mrvaselineglass]

Bernard: In doing a search for VESTA VENETIAN, you seem to be the only real reference for this pattern in my google search.

In looking at your apothecary jar, you mention that it is 18 ribs, and that the lid was the same, but not always.  In the John Walsh Walsh book by Eric Reynolds, pg. 16 (and color photo on pg. 44), the one on pg. 44 looks very similar to my lampshade.  In Gulliver, pg. 146, the same vase is shown as in Reynolds/pg. 44, and Gulliver gives that vase 16 spaces.  My lampshade has the same gaps between the wire wrapping, and also has the MOTHER OF PEARL treatment and uranium opalescent look to the Reynolds/pg. 44 and Gulliver/pg. 146. 

My 3.5" tall miniature lampshade (with hole on base for bayonet-style English socket), has 13 wire wraps, with 13 spaces in between the wrap bands. 

Please let me know what you think!  thanks!
http://www.vaselineglass.org/vestavenetian.jpg

Dave Peterson
aka: Mr. Vaseline Glass

[Bernard C]

Dave — I'm not the only person to recognise and attempt to document Walsh, and particularly Walsh Vesta Venetian.   All my musings here have been in relation to what I believe is the later style made from temperature sensitive opalescent glass and not iridised.   I have only had two or three examples of the apparently earlier Walsh Mother of Pearl style through my hands, and did not record them.   The best illustration of the two styles is on Philip & Anne Petrides' greatglass reference pages here.   For the benefit of new readers, Walsh Mother of Pearl has no relationship to the US collectors' term for air-trap, explained in more detail elsewhere on this discussion board.

I think a Walsh attribution for your little lampshade is unlikely.   That rim crimp doesn't look particularly Walsh to me.   Also I've never seen Vesta Venetian ribs break apart in the complete way they've done on your piece when blown to shape, leaving those pointed oval windows.   Every example of Vesta Venetian I've seen since I started counting has had the main element 18/18.   I've never seen any Walsh piece made using a 13 rib dip mould, indeed yours is the first example of any glass I've knowingly seen made with a 13 rib dip mould.   And, finally, it just doesn't look like Walsh to me.

The general technique of rib, twist, and rib again is and was widely known.   When I took an example of Vesta Venetian to Murano and showed it to an old-timer demonstrating glassmaking, he knew exactly how it was made and demonstrated it there and then.   Only within the last few days an attribution query has come up on this board for a piece made this way, see here.

The colours I've found so far of the opalescent second style of Vesta Venetian are ruby, blue, green, white, canary, and the temperature sensitive orange, discussed recently.   For a selection, see the penultimate photograph by Leni here, top shelf, centre left.   The white flared goblet vase behind the orange tazza is actually ruby!

I hope that helps.

Bernard C. 

[Bernard C]

...   In doing a search for VESTA VENETIAN, you seem to be the only real reference for this pattern in my google search.   ...

Dave — I see what you mean.   Going a'googling for Vesta Venetian yields some very imaginative results.   I look forward to the day when some of these jokers actually buy or borrow a few books and work it out properly for themselves.

Regards,

Bernard C. 

[Bernard C]

Dave — In the course of looking something up on the greatglass reference pages, I found this lovely example of alexandrite (row 12, 7376), obviously by Webb, which could have been made using a 13-rib dip mould, although a 12-rib is more likely because of the hexagonal rim.

Also I found an attributed example of Webb on page 146 of Gulliver, top left, which seems to have been made using the rib/twist/rib again technique, and seems to have a rib count of 13.   The rim is classic Webb, and is similar to your shade.   I doubt whether Mervyn would have attributed this without some very positive evidence.

All in all the evidence seems to point to a possible Webb attribution for your shade.

Hope that helps.

Bernard C.