Topic: Who is the baccarat who signed this vase and how old?

[tonyatl]

regarding Glassmarken Lexicon, as reliable as it may be it is not infallible and absence of data is nothing but an argument from silence which is rarely a strong position from which to argue. on the other hand it surely must be reckoned with to some degree.

however, it all seems moot as new evidence is pointing to different and more probable provenence. i would certainly go with an american attribution. as nice as the vase is it does not have the elegance and quality i think of with baccarat....

[johnphilip]

Mike The Gassmarken Lexicon has Royo down as Moser i am told .

[KevinH]

For confirmation:

Hartmann's Glasmarken Lexikon does not list "ROYO" or "CIRE" in the index, but both of those names are included in the many image references for marks under detailed info for "Moser, Ludwig & Sönne". The image references point to indvidual entries in the A-Z section which then cross reference the bilbiography section where the info is seen to be taken from Baldwin's Moser - Artistry in Glass 1857-1938.

[Frank]

There are many marks omitted from Hartmann, many have probably been added to the web version - along with corrections to the book.

[Mike M]

Lets not completly destroy one of our best references -guys

I agree no reference is perfect -Hartmann is ultimately a compilation of other supposedly 'relaible' references and as an otherwise good reference book attributed  Royo and Cire to Moser - Hartmann had noted that fact -for a long time I was taken in too and I'm meant to be a Moser expert.

When a completely new Baccarat signature turns up, different, in style, case and form from any seen before (in Hartmann or anywhere else). I'll still leaning toward a 'creative addition'

 

[johnphilip]

I only mentioned the Lexicon - Royo because i had a very irate German lady  email me and take me to task , she said Royo WAS Moser because the Lexicon said so , and she was very threatening  and i am so scared of Ladies.

[tonyatl]

regardless of whether or not the signature was a creative addition, the more interesting question in my mind is whether or not one could source this vase to mt washington or smith brothers. i think we can rule out baccarat certainly for the time being. if this reference from glasshound proves credible then i think we have fertile grounds for productive analysis.

i am also not sure if this vase is up to mt washington's quality.

[tonyatl]

here is another similarly decorated vase whose owner gives a smith brothers attribution but claims the sandwich glass co.....
http://www.trocadero.com/eeber/items/576876/item576876.html.

also, look at the smith brothers glass offered by this dealer. there is strong familial resemblance to my vase and the works which they attribute to smith. however, i leave open the possibility that they created this vase while at mt washington c. 1875 which is 3 years prior to their departure from that company.

http://www.wpitt.com/artglass/smith1.html

[Glasshound]

I've included pictures of "Baccarat" vases and their "signatures" in the next few post.......if you examine the signatures you'll find them quite "diverse" in style. If you take this into consideration, you can assume these signatures are "fake" and were added afterword...Another thing to consider is that I never see these vases for sale in France. I'm French and I've been frequenting EBAY France for years....

[Glasshound]

More pics..