Topic: A Tudor / Jack Lloyd engraved tall jug for dating, please

[Ming]

Bernard

Ask John Saunders at the National. He usually goes there. He is the expert on Jack Lloyd. The bowl is  late 50s/60s because l remember l shown him my glass with the same pattern. I have also been told that Jack 1930s work was much better quality and the base stamp is Tudor without the Made in England. I have two of his 1930s pieces and it does shown when compare with his later works.

Sorry my photos are not very good. May be l bring the 1930s Rose glass to National and show you Bernard. What stall are you?

[Bernard C]

...   May be l bring the 1930s Rose glass to National and show you Bernard.   ...

Yes, please.

I prefer not to use the word quality when comparing two items with different fineness of engraving.   My favourite piece is the Walsh Deer Hunt bowl, engraved by Mr. Douglas, who was paid just 8/6 for his work on this 14" bowl.   It is not fine at all, but engraved with great economy, but I doubt whether anyone would consider it of less than the highest quality.   Jack Lloyd's work is all of the highest quality to me, perhaps more so with his later work, where a possibly reduced piecework rate demanded a significant economy of engraving.   It still stands out as exceptional.

Here's an example from Walsh, unnamed engraver, around 1930, and possibly Walsh's response to Jack Lloyd's early work, emphasised by the following pattern using the same blanks but engraved with more traditional foliage, just in case it didn't sell.   The piecework rate for engraving a tumbler was just 5d.   That's fantastic quality for 5d!!!!!   Click on the image for details / enlargement.

And here's another economical engraving, 1937–38, designed by Keith Murray for Stevens & Williams, unnamed engraver again, of the very highest quality.      Again click on the image for details / enlargement.

Finally, I'm certain the Made in England Tudor mark dates from the 1930s.   It was quite likely to have been in use at the same time as the simple Tudor mark.   The notion that one mark was always scrapped as soon as another was introduced is a fiction introduced by those who like their history neat and tidy in simple compartments.   I think of them as Stanley Gibbons historians!

Bernard C.