Topic: Plate etched bird design. Was: Any antique drinking glass experts out there?

[peejyweejy]

Thanks everyone for the input. Cathy your jug is very similar - I think the bird in flight looks more like a humming bird.

[peejyweejy]

Just found the Calypto jug by chance - totally different in my opinion.

http://www.pips-trip.co.uk/sold/sold-kitchenalia-2/showitem-CHA-CALYPTOJ2.aspx

[KevinH]

Kiwi? Humming bird?

The birds are possibly a version of Herons of some type, but with a lot of artistic licence.

In the flying bird, the way the legs project well beyond the tail and are held horizontal with the toes pointing upwards is the way Herons actually look when flying. Also, the long bill and rounded head could tie in with that thought. But the outstretched wings look far too small in comparison to the leg length!

P.S. I am not a twitcher

[chopin-liszt]

I agree Kev, that jug is completely different, the shapes are inverted!
I'm now even less sure about what I said, though the use of both these shapes is not out of the question.

I was thinking more in terms of perhaps generic jug shapes having certain fashionable periods. The whole business of studying cold decorated glass is fraught with deciphering not only the maker of the glass, but the decorator, as well as perhaps a good time lag and/or a geographical distance between the two.

Will have to check with my wee brother about the Chance jug shape. Until I can do that, ignore me. Maybe my brain's inverted! :spls:

I don't see why though, that a fanciful bird should be based on any bird in particular.

[Paul S.]

""Very inaccurate - kiwis are flightless!""  oh yes.........bet if you threw one hard enough it really wud fly thru the air    Think the only thing we can say with certainty is that the 'U' shape says it is definintely a sherry glass  - and coming back to the stylized bird   -  reminds me of a vase I put on the board earlier in the year that had a very Hieronymus Bosch sort of bird image - I also withdraw the comment re not liking the bird  -  quite agree, too subjective.   So, I'm going to go for Eastern Europe 1920 - 1940.   Paul S.

[peejyweejy]

I love the Hieronymus Bosch sort of bird bit -they are pretty odd. And, yes, kiwis do fly if you throw them hard enough, tried it with an old "Kiwi" boss of mine. If I remember correctly, she bounced. Have found all the chat quite interesting 

[Cathy B]

Ah, yes, I do know that Kiwis are flightless   ...

The suggestion was testing Christine's idea that the piece was etched for the Australian market. European depictions of Australian native animals, for the local market, can be distinctly weird!  Most of the kangaroos ended up looking like crosses between greyhounds and rabbits, so I wouldn't have put it past them to make kiwis fly. If Christine's suggestion that it had been engraved for the local Antipodean market was correct, then the only species they could be was kiwis. (We do have herons, but they wouldn't have been recognisably ANZ enough to arouse patriotism.) Very little jungle in Australia or New Zealand either, for that matter. There doesn't appear to be anything like the piece in Australian Glass of the 19th and Early 20th Century, so it's unlikely to have been locally etched.

Kev's a keen birdwatcher, and I'd go with his suggestion of heron as the most likely bird. This implies that the piece wasn't likely to have been made specifically for the Antipodean market - do people agree? Kev, with your eye for accuracy, do you think the style of etch is similar enough for the jug and glass to have etched (if not made) by the same company? I always thought the jug was Stourbridge, just from the feel.

When I asked Paul what the birds on the jug were, he scoffed "physically and aerodynamically impossible", and refused to be further drawn.

[KevinH]

"physically and aerodynamically impossible"

Yeah, I agree! But that's pretty much what some folk said about bees, too!!

As for my thoughts based on my "eye for accuracy" [what a lovely way of saying "pedanticism"] ...
1. The main motif of the decoration is clearly from a common pattern
2. The working of the decoration of the jug is of better clarity than on the glass.
3. The breast and underside of the birds on the jug are worked differently from those on the glass
4. The fern-like flora and the palm-like leaves show differences between the two examples
Therefore I would suggest that if both examples were made by the pantograph technique then it was the pantograph original that had the differences.

Beyond that, I have no idea.

[Cathy B]

As for my thoughts based on my "eye for accuracy" [what a lovely way of saying "pedanticism"] ...

Oh good grief, did I write that? I was meaning something more like "eye for detail"! Sorry, Kev!

Thanks for comparing the two designs, that's very helpful. Will now go and google on "pantograph". :rn:

[Cathy B]

Hmm. I don't think mine is pantograph etching, as there are lots of little breaks in the pattern. I think it's diamond point engraved. This would account for the differences in the pattern, as well.

Excuse the strange photo - I've taken down the brightness & bumped up the contrast in an attempt to better show the detail.