Topic: IOW maximal polar bear??? in black and white ? what do you think

[chopin-liszt]

 :thud:

No, no, no, Mike!
There is no way that bits made by IOM would end up being sold in the IOW shop with IOW labels.

This just wasn't MH's way. When the Boffos made jugs and animal things at Mdina in their own time, to sell for themsleves, they were not sold in the Mdina shop, but at the outlet in Valetta.

St. John's crystal was on it's last legs, going under, when Michael Harris stepped in with his help and expertise and basically saved the company, who made and sold his designs under license.

It wasn't a matter of contracting work out to them!

[rosieposie]

I understood it that IOW 'outsourced' * the Minimals / Maximals work to IOW, according to Franks input in this previous link:

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,16131.0.html

Quote from Frank:  

"It turns out that the Minimal and Maximal range were designed by IOW but outsourced to Isle of Man glass. IOM glass was staffed by ex Wedgwood glassmakers."


*Definition of outsourced:
To send out (work, for example) to an outside provider or manufacturer in order to cut costs.

This tallies well with the conversation I had with Ron in Cambridge.

St. John's Crystal Isle of Man made and sold these little pieces from their own  shop, not on the Isle of Wight, Mike.
They were made under license, but the initial agreement was, as far as I understood, symbiotic, benefitting both parties.  Only when St John's Crystal renegued on the agreement did things go sour.
Up until then all was well, and the little animals produced were of a high quality, regardless of the colour of the glass.

[Paul S.]

I have a clear Wedgwood elephant, with a label on the base  -  which no doubt is a beast that you are all familiar with anyway, but is it of any interest, in your deliberations to see my animal.    Mind you, it might take me a week to locate which box it resides in - and in which shed I need to visit to find the correct box.   -  so perhaps not a good idea after all.          Is the clear Wedgwood elephant a common item with you animal collectors??

[rosieposie]

Hello Paul.....thanks for popping by here.....clear glass ellies by Wedgwood in the larger size, (4"+ high) do seem to be few and far between.  The Wedgwood  'Lilliput' Series were mostly made in clear glass....including the squirrels and ducks. 

If it is a large one, and you are able to locate it easily, then a picture would be nice,  however, I do have several of the 'Lilliput' ellies and squirrels easily to hand.

I also have a whole herd of the larger ellies in many different colours.....and some smaller ones as well.

Strangely enough, although we have mentioned that Wedgwood workers came to the IOM to make the Minimal and Maximal animals, I, for the life of me cannot see that they were made in the same style,  and this is most probably because the designs were not Wedgwood,  but were Michael Harris's.

However, some of the other larger animals have a similarity to the Wedgwood designs....I have a lovely squirrel that has all the hallmarks of a Wedgwood piece but was made by St Johns Crystal Isle of Man......in fact, I have two....did have three, but gave one away as a pressy!

[Baked_Beans]

Hi All ,

There is a strong suggestion from both Frank and Mark that these were made for IOW by IOM , having read the above link.

I've added some further close shots of mine just to illustrate the decoration.

The base is a speckled purple colour with black flecks cased in clear glass.

Then, on top of this, the surface decoration is gold/silver leaf with other surface colours such as a copper/brown , blue , and white.

I just thought it might give some colour clues to its origin , if not, then at least it can provide a reference to other examples which may come along in the future.  Ta, Mike.

[chopin-liszt]

Suggestion is not confirmation - and we would do well to heed what both Mark and Frank say exactly.
If they knew, they would say so.
If they "suggest", it is an educated guess, no more.
No confirmation has been made.

too many folk run away with rumours like this, then they become transformed into "percieved wisdom" by folk who omit the doubt when passing it on.... then folk have to spend years trying to undo the damage.

 :nogos:   :bsh:

Some images of St. John's fish - shape decidedly Wedgwood, quality decidedly dodgy.

[rosieposie]

Sue,  I would agree with two things you have just written:

1.  They are GHASTLY!!!

2. They are just like Wedgwood fish.

I will now add my own bit to your fish comments....I think Wedgwood fish are ghastly as well as the ones you have illustrated.

Your fish are hardly representative of some of the beautifully intricate animal pieces made at St John's Crystal.....you only have to look at the examples of some that I showed in the 'Show me yours and I'll show you mine' thread to see that!  Amongst those squirrels and ellies are a couple of St John's Crystal pieces.....I defy you to say which they are. Your own comments following my showing them, says it all.

This thread is not a platform to slag off St John's Crystal, it is to ascertain if we can find out if the two polar bears (Michelle's and Mike's) are made by the IOW studio or the IOM studio.

Neither of them have labels, so an 'educated guess' may be needed.
We can only use information given by those who offer it, and both Ron and Frank seem in agreement as to the relationship between IOM and IOW glass.

The fact that the two companies 'fell out' does not make one studio's glass good and the other's bad.
There is good and bad glass in all studios.

[rosieposie]

Two more pictures just for interest

[Baked_Beans]

Lovely collection Rosie,

I'll have a stab at a guess  for spotting the IOM  :ooh:

I think the IOM squirrel is the second from the left in the photo and the IOM ellie is the middle one. Only on style reather than quality ...but then style says a lot.......having said that, I could be totally wrong !  :wsh:

Sue , how do you know for sure that the IOM animals were made under license only and that there wasn't any form of 'contracting out ' of the work  to the IOM from IOWSG? Not that I doubt your statements,  it would be good to know how you came to know for sure ! Ta, Mike.

P.S. Don't like the fish either  :po:

[rosieposie]

Interesting guess Mike.......but wrong! Sorry.

I got another ellie the other day....IOW, not in this picture....Just the same 'style' as the one you thought was the IOM one.

Fascinating, isn't it?