Topic: silver rimmed vase powell?

[Gplan]

Hi all

nice to meet  you
im new to the forum and on the scrounge for info already
i have recently picked up this heavy little vase standing at 3 3/4 inches high
with a polished pontil the silver is stamped H.B an anchor,a letter Z and a lion

i was thinking it was powell london but the silversmiths stamp =Birmingham 1924 sterling
has led me astray any ideas?

thanks

[chopin-liszt]

Hi and welcome to the gmb.  :hi:

Don't worry about being on the scrounge for info - we all are. Questions (hopefully) bring answers for everybody - it's how information dissemination works!

I'm afraid I can't help much with your pretty little vase - I try to avoid glass with bits of silver stuck to it as these are often of much more interest to silver collectors than to glass folk - generally with a hefty premium involved if the silver stamp consists of the "right" markings (sorry, I don't "get" silver, unless it's reacting chemically with the glass).
HB will be the silversmith, the lion signifies sterling silver, Z refers to the year, (the script style may be significant too) and the anchor is for Birmingham.
I'm sure I did manage to find a good reference site for hallmarks at one time, have you rooted around the net for such a thing yet? A year might help narrow the field of research for the glassmaker.

A picture of the base is always very helpful.


(and it's a pontil mark or scar. A pontil or punty is the metal rod the glass is held on while being worked. When it is broken off, it leaves a pontil scar which can then be refined or treated in different ways - the pontil mark. Sorry to nag, this misnomer is a huge bugbear of mine!)

[Bernard C]

Gplan — welcome to the GMB

Nice vase.   My own observations are that in England there is very little correlation between the location of a glassworks and either the assay office used by or the location of a silversmith for an add-on.   That rim could have been instigated by a wholesaler or large retailer looking for exclusivity utilising a combination of glassworks and silversmith that had never previously cooperated.

So, I don't see a Birmingham hallmark as any evidence for or against a Whitefriars attribution.

Bernard C.  

[Gplan]

Hi thanks for your veiws they are most welcome the polished out mark is just over an inch in diameter i have added a couple of pics the colour is  like my fifties whitefriars vase in sea green.
thanks

[johnphilip]

Hi i dont want to be a spoilsport but my gut feeling is its not Powell , i have been collecting and viewing for many years with some of the most knowledgable people  , it just doesnt look right however its a very nice piece of glass ,. I have no doubt Nigel will be along soon trust his opinion . regards jp . :cheers:

[Gplan]

Hi thanks John for the input
i am also a whitefriars collector but more later than early  hence why i picked it up on gut feeling
but not knowing my hallmarks
this little vase has led me on a trail of discovery
i have been looking at the silversmith's site and the  silversmiths stamp is attributed to Henry Bourne of Brum
although i found out he was  registered to 1910 so i have checked the letter z again and found under a magnification it is
1899 not 1924 what is even funnier is that he is attributed to making Basket's, napkin rings, pepperette, salver, sauce boat's, spoon set's, tea service etc
so im just wondering if this is a napkin ring placed on a vase i have doubled checked it though and it seems the vase was prepared all ground and no chips
i might post it on a silver collectors site for longshot.
still no idea on the vase or date???

[Lustrousstone]

he is attributed to making Basket's, napkin rings, pepperette, salver, sauce boat's, spoon set's, tea service etc

These are finished items. Likely he would have made commission orders for whoever wanted them, including fitments for vases. Most companies made stuff to order, which is why it didn't appear in the catalogues. There was quite a large market for silver collars for vases and I expect Henry took his share.

[Bernard C]

Gplan — Take a little care with http://www.925-1000.com if that's the site you're using.   Any image you post on their site becomes their property.

I read their rules before checking out my Mystery Arts & Crafts Condiment Set in Glass and EPNS, so I posted there without images and just provided a link to the GMB topic.   Nevertheless they stole my GlassGallery image, cropped it, resized it making it a little fuzzy, added their logo, and added it to their reference pages here.

Had they asked, I would happily have provided a crisp image to any size they wanted provided it was published at least with a mouseover acknowledgement/copyright notice.   Instead of that, they've ballsed up the image, they've made me very angry, and they've seriously devalued the reference information by losing the link to the condiment set and its 1910 registration number.   It would have taken them less effort to do it properly!

What a bunch of stupid idiots.

Bernard C.

[nigel benson]

Hello,

Bernard's point about matching up any glassmaker with any silversmith is a very valid observation, and something that has come up on W/F's dot com recently about a decanter.

Given that Powell were using their own silver mark at the time that this piece was produced, it would indicate, at the very best, it was a commisioned piece of glass by Powell used by a retailer or wholesaler who wanted to use their own chosen silversmith. NOTE: I am not saying that it is by them.

That said I feel that this piece is more likely of Stourbridge origin than London, but would much prefer to handle the piece to give a more definative appraisal. For instance it could be by Stuart, Richardsons, or Thomas Webb. All of them produced glass in this style and colour (although direct comparison can help determine which of these it could be, it is not conclusive - still not done enough work on that!!). All finished off using the same style of pontil.

Unless silver based forums have information about glass suppliers, I think it is more than likely that they will only be able to confirm the information that you have already found out. Their interest is after all about silver.

Bernard, thanks for the warning about that site 

Nigel