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Author Topic: How does one identify "rock-crystal" glass?  (Read 13066 times)

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Offline johnphilip

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Re: How does one identify "rock-crystal" glass?
« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2010, 08:22:18 AM »
Sue your decanter is so much like one i have , it was identified for me by Simon Cottle when he was head of glass dept at Sothebys only the pattern is different mine is by John Orchard for S&W . He is a well respected author on glass .

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Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: How does one identify "rock-crystal" glass?
« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2010, 08:38:52 AM »
Wow, thanks again, jp. Those are certainly names I know. Do you happen to have any images of yours?
I have been staring and staring at it, (mine) I don't honestly know if it's looking "soft" because I'm going soft in the head or if it's real.
My gut instinct when I first laid eyes on it was that it looked like rock-crystal cut glass. Handling it did nothing to discourage that feeling. However, one doesn't see that much of it around and I'm not used to handling it, obviously, I have my doubts because of my lack of experience in this area.
The more I look at it, the more I'm convinced I was right - I really appreciate your opinion, as I know you do have experience with this sort of quality item.
Cheers, Sue M. (she/her)

Earth without art is just eh.

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Offline claretjugcollector

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Re: How does one identify "rock-crystal" glass?
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2010, 11:13:12 AM »
nice piece ! i think it is a intaglio cut glass and not rock crystal decanter - the design reminds of john orchard !! :ooh:
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Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: How does one identify "rock-crystal" glass?
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2010, 11:40:21 AM »
Thanks very much - I hoped you would have a look!
I know it's not real rock crystal, but my query is whether or not it might be what is what is known as "rock crystal cut". I think it probably is, but this sort of thing is not my usual area - way out of my league (financially) and time period. :-\

but that's 2 (experienced) votes for a John Orchard possibility..... ;D
Cheers, Sue M. (she/her)

Earth without art is just eh.

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Offline claretjugcollector

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Re: How does one identify "rock-crystal" glass?
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2010, 11:49:30 AM »
...Man made electric light to take us out of the dark
Man made the boat for the water, like Noah made the ark
.... James B.

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Offline claretjugcollector

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Re: How does one identify "rock-crystal" glass?
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2010, 11:57:54 AM »
by the way , sue !

take some grey paper as a background in your light tent - then cut a slice in the upper side of the tent ( 6 inches ) - then take a torch - and put the shine behind your decanter - just try - it works :-) :hi:
...Man made electric light to take us out of the dark
Man made the boat for the water, like Noah made the ark
.... James B.

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Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: How does one identify "rock-crystal" glass?
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2010, 12:09:23 PM »
I managed to get the light from the window behind the tent yesterday - today, there is no light outside.
Thanks very much for the tip - do I need special bulbs in the torch?
I can see there is a huge difference between your two glorious images, but I can't quite see where my decanter fits inbetween them.
The cutting is somehow not as flat as your intaglio cut, and nowhere near as ornate and soft looking as your rock crystal cut, and I can't see how either relate to the picture of Hazel's rock crystal cut decanter.

I can see me lugging it all the way to Birmingham in November!
Cheers, Sue M. (she/her)

Earth without art is just eh.

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Offline johnphilip

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Re: How does one identify "rock-crystal" glass?
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2010, 12:28:38 PM »
I believe it only looks intaglio because it needs polishing out , that gives the flat dull look to some of the cutting .

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Offline claretjugcollector

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Re: How does one identify "rock-crystal" glass?
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2010, 12:59:54 PM »
appearance of carved rock crystal became especially popular during the final two decades of the nineteenth century in Great Britain. The style was also used, in a somewhat simplified form for the most part, in the United States from about 1890.


The British glass scholar Charles R. Hajdamach (1991, p. 234) unequivocally states that the rock-crystal style has "three main characteristics: deep cutting, copper-wheel engraving and final polishing". Somewhat confusingly the style is also sometimes referred to as "polished intaglio" (Charleston 1990, p. 199). Hajdamach continues as follows:


Firstly the glass has to be shaped by cutting, usually with pillars or roundels, from a thick blank to provide the basic shape. The pillared decoration by the glass cutter is extremely skilful, difficult and time-consuming as it is cut out of the solid with mathematical precision that belies its hand operation. Because the cutting is later covered by engraving this essential part of the process is often greatly underrated. The glass is next passed to the copper-wheel engraver who carves the finer details which complement the deeper cutting. For example the engraving may consist of leaves and flowers which grow out of the stems formed by the deep cutting. The third requisite is the polishing of the cutting and the engraving to restore the original polish to the glass.
The Stourbridge factory of Thomas Webb and Sons, at the Dennis Glass Works, was the first firm to use the term "rock crystal", for entries in a pattern book that are dated 6 Jul 1878. Two of the company's principle engravers were the Bohemian immigrants Frederick Engelbert Kny and William Fritsche. The latter is usually credited with introducing the style at Webb's, but there is no documentation. Hajdamach suggests that "its introduction may have been a joint venture by the two great Bohemian engravers" (Hajdamach 1991, p. 238). William Fritsche worked intermittently for two and a half years on the masterpiece of this genre, completing in 1886 "Fritsche's Ewer" a tour-de-force of "baroque power and rhythm" that can be seen at the Corning Museum of Glass (Charleston 1990, pp. 188-189).

Stevens and Williams Ltd., Webb's main competitor in the Stourbridge area, introduced rock crystal a year after Webb. Most of its rock crystal glass was engraved by John Orchard and Len Beach who often used designs created by another Bohemian immigrant engraver, Joseph Keller. After 1900 the additional firms of Webb Corbett and Stuart and Sons "made their own versions of rock crystal with a mixture of art nouveau and neo-classicism under the direction of two of Frederick Kny's sons, William and Ludwig" (Hajdamach 1991, p. 247)...............


...Man made electric light to take us out of the dark
Man made the boat for the water, like Noah made the ark
.... James B.

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Offline claretjugcollector

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Re: How does one identify "rock-crystal" glass?
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2010, 01:05:43 PM »
ad photos :

sun is our enemy - the best time to take pics is in the morning with no sun - - a cloudy not rainy day makes the best light - and the special effect comes from a rather normal LED torch ( a few pounds ) - in the end you will get some blue shiny images - not all people like the blue - if you want them more yellow - then you have to cooperate with sunshine - a good way is also to make them black and white :-)

http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00YeuTQJdWVUpa/LED-Torch-S231-.jpg
...Man made electric light to take us out of the dark
Man made the boat for the water, like Noah made the ark
.... James B.

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