Topic: Clear pressed bowl to id

[neilh]

Brilliant! The meaning of these marks has been debated over the years but on the latest, and I believe correct explanation,  you have a mould made by the Birmingham mould maker William Reading. So your piece was probably designed in the 1830s or 1840s, one of the earliest pressed glass design patterns in the UK. The actual pressing could have been some time after that but looking at the thickness of the piece I still say 1850 or earlier is quite likely.

Some of these plates had the moulds designed in Brum but there is no guarantee they were actually pressed by a Birmingham factory. Some moulds were exported abroad to the near continent. Some were used by Molineaux Webb of Manchester. The northeast is another possibility. Until the design appears in a glass catalogue we can't be sure who produced it.

The odds are slightly in favour of a West Midlands glass works.

I should mention that Siegmar Geiselberger of Pressed Glass Correspondence magazine did a lot of research in this area and I am to a degree parroting back some of his work here!

[yesvil]

neilh thank you so much that's all really interesting. Not American then, unless the moulds made it that far? I would love to know more about this period and these people, do you have any good web links that may help me?

[neilh]

Here is a link to Siegmar's pdf from edition PK 2008-3 of his magazine. It is in German but you can always copy and paste the text out into the Google German to English translator and get most of the meaning.

http://www.pressglas-korrespondenz.de/aktuelles/pdf/pk-2008-3w-vogt-teller-wr-victoria.pdf

I've been intending adding a couple of topics to the British & Irish board on these plates - might get round to it tonight if I'm feeling keen!

[neilh]

Ok I have added details on a Molineaux Webb Queen Victoria plate on the British & Irish board here:

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,36446.0.html

[neilh]

One more thread for you on this topic - highlighting the prize piece in my collection. A very early plate made circa 1840, possibly one of the earliest pressed items in the UK which can be attributed to a glass works. See what you think!

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,36448.0.html

[yesvil]

Thanks neilh I will have a good(Gut) read-up when I get the chance.

Prior to posting the plate on here I sent a email to the Early American Pattern Glass Society. They have very kindly written back and I'm sure they wont mind if I post their response here:

"Hello Adam,

Your glass "bowl" appears to be a deep plate from the Lacy glass era that immediately preceded the Early American Pattern Glass era.

Barlow and Kaiser show an example of this pattern in A Guide to Sandwich Glass Pressed Tableware in their photo #1088.

They call the pattern "Pressed Shell" - apparently named for the twelve design elements in the border that vaguely resemble scallop shells.

They date the plate 1835-1850 and write "There are several variants of Shell documented as Sandwich (Boston and Sandwich Glass Co., Sandwich, MA.), but it is possible that other eastern flint glass factories also made them. The plates came in at least seven sizes.

I trust this is of assistance."

So this implys that the Moulds were used in America

[neilh]

Hi there,

What you have to bear in mind here is that Ruth Webb Lee compiled books on Sandwich glass over 50 years ago and lumped a lot of British and European plates as American. Since then, catalogues have come to light showing this to be mistaken, and the attribution of some pieces is therefore incorrect.

What is unclear to me is whether books (?) like Barlow and Kaiser are just repeating the work of Ruth Webb Lee and copying thr mistakes, or whether catalogues exist from Boston & Sandwich and these designs are in there.

As these designs were not registered it is quite possible that some moulds might have been exported in both directions, but ultimately the proof is in the surviving catalogues...

I have been trying to contact an EAPG person and would like to follow up your email with them. Could you possibly email me through my website with the email address of your contact - my email link is on this page

http://sites.google.com/site/molwebbhistory/Home/contact---updates

.. and I'll see if I can get any further with this!

[yesvil]

Will do  :thup:

[Sid]

Hello

This really isn't classified as EAPG - it is Lacy period pressed glass.  I would suggest that you contact Corning Museum of Glass.

When I get home tonight, I'll have a look at the Barlow and Kaiser reference because they are excellent researchers and are not likely just following Lee.

Sid

[Sid]

Hello

I am going to dive into waters that I am not real comfortable with i.e. pre EAPG era tableware.  Heck, I am not even comfortable with flint EAPG tablewares.  On second thought, I am just going to dip my toe in.

Barlow and Kaiser indeed show what appears to be the plate in question in Glass in Sandwich Vol 1 as figure 1088.  They show two other plates (1089 and 1366) in a similar but distinctly different pattern, one of which is referenced to the Lee-Rose book "American Glass Cup Plates".  The main design difference from your example is that the central area inside the four large medallions is not stippled and the decorative bit in the direct centre is different in the latter two plates. Barlow and Kaiser do not indicate that shards were found at the site for figure 1088 and do not list this as a pattern that can be documented (catalog, price lists, shards, etc.) as being made at the factory.  Lee-Rose, in turn, show several plates with a shell border, none of which match the plate of interest but several of which are clearly related to the latter two plates in Barlow and Kaiser.  Spillman shows yet another variant as Figure 301 in "American and European Pressed Glass in the Corning Museum of Glass".

It looks like several variations of the same design were being made at that early date.  Typically this means, at least in later years, that there is a high probability that several factories were involved.

Sid