Topic: Excellent Engraving of Nude Dancer on Clear Glass Vase ID = Kamenicky Senov

[Ohio]

Personally I think you are limited thinking only Orrefors or Kosta. King's Glass Engraving in Tiffin Ohio does this type of work. King's father & grandfather cut & engraved nudes on Tiffin & other blanks for years & they are still doing it today & the fact that its a thin wall blank leads me squarely in that direction. Ken

[langhaugh]

Rosie:

Lindstrand only designed, didn't engrave. There were a number of extremely talented engravers at Orrefors at the time. You're right about the Josephine Baker series being similar in style to the Java dancers. The next Lindstrand piece you link is later, and moving towards the style he had at Kosta in the 50's.  It's interesting that the later pieces are less naked than the earlier pieces. Nudity seems not to have been a probem with 1930's Orrefors. I wonder if the change came when they started exporting to the States.

I'm pretty sure now that this is Lindstrand for Orrefors, although I can't explain why it isn't marked. Interesting to see how much they fetch at auction.

I'd still really appreciate any thoughts for Daniel, if this were moved to Scandinavian, as suggested by John.

David

[langhaugh]

Ken:
I haven't seen much by Tiffin and nothing by King's Glass so obviously I can't rule them out. But if it is by King's Glass, then the design is a blatant rip-off of a Lindstrand design. As I don't know King's Glass, do you see this as a possibility?

David

[eglass]

Ken, interesting train of thought and one I hadn't considered! I did buy this one at the same sale where I purchased the signed Lindstrand Icarus vase, so perhaps I was buttonholing myself into Scandinavian works - when the previous owner may have just collected fine engravings regardless of where manufactured.

I'll do some research on King Glass too and see if I can see anything similar - then I'll report back.

Here's some photos of the Icarus vase I've referred to (which has since been sold and now lives in England  :mrgreen:  )

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-14902
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-14900
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-14897
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-14895

[eglass]

Well - I can't seem to find any examples of King's work. One link from Tiffin mentions a website, but that URL takes me to a non-existent page. I don't see any reference books showing their work either. I did see a couple of items made for a wedding, with engraved birds, bows and the like - but none of the older pieces, more current "trophy" or presentation pieces I'm guessing.

Ken, if you have any examples of their work (or know where I can find some) would you let me know?

Many thanks again!

[Ohio]

Kelli...King's is still in business, but to you have to be local midwestern to have knowledge of them. The Tiffin factory sand carved nudes were done by the grandfather, then father so you get the idea. You can take any blank (Tiffin Swedish Optic blanks are favorites) to them, look through the pattern book & they can duplicate just about anything & thats all I'll say if you get my drift.  Ken

[Ohio]

David I do not consider that to be a blatant rip-off of a Lindstrand design no more so than I would consider a Lindstrand design to be a blatant rip-off of a 5th century Greek design simply because I believe that absolutely no one individual or company has a corner on the market when it comes to nudes since inspiration is boundless. While the Scandinavian companies produced nude design themes on many blanks so did the Bohemians/Czechs...ever look through a Hoffman Catalog? or even a Walther (german) catalog? Believe it or not we (U.S. companies) produced a wide variety of nude themed glass, especially Cambridge Glass Co. during the 30'a & I simply consider nude designs as a whole to be largely artistic interpretations & I'm not aware that you can/could maintain absolute control regarding artisitic freedom of expression, especially during those times, but thats my opinion. Ken

[langhaugh]

Ken:

If you haven't seen the design I'm referring to in Ricke's Swedish Glass Factories, could you give me your email address so I can send you a scan of the relevant page (106). Then you can see that the design on Kelli's piece and the design shown in the book are identical apart from the two details I mentioned: the face looking outward rather than upward, and three lines coming from the waist. I have to be honest and say I would be very surprised if anyone other than Lindstrand designed Kelli's piece, although I make no claim about who engraved it.

I'll also admit that this is the second reply I've written. I was a little upset that, although it seems you haven't seen the original design I referenced, you seemed to assume my sole criterion was based on the fact that both designs were based on a nude;  that is, if it's a nude, then it's a Lindstrand. Of course I don't believe that. The designs are so alike that, although one (not me) might choose to defend soemone copying them, you could never defend using the term "artistic interpretation" to describe that process.

David

[langhaugh]

Mods:

I had a look at the front of Swedish Glass Factories and there isn't an assertion of copyright. Given that the book reproduces factory catalogues, I think it would be OK for me to post the image I'm talking about. Here it is. Now as I look at it, it looks more like the Josephine Baker line than the Java dancer.

David

[eglass]

I totally agree, David! It's too similar to be anything but a version of Lindstrand's Baker series. Now whether it was a copy done by a talented artist who was copying Lindstrand's work is the question. Since it's not signed, I have to think it may be.
But without a doubt - it's Lindstrand's design. Thank you VERY much for sharing your knowledge and reference material on this piece!

Kelli