Topic: ChanceGlass.net : cataloguing Fiestaware patterns

[David E]

Anne! Those odd dishes you have — where are the photos on your site? Could be interesting.

Who, me?  Ahhh these ones you mean?
http://www.yobunny.org.uk/gallery1/thumbnails.php?album=15
I just realised I have four plates not three, in two different designs (3 of one design, one of the other).

As discussed with Anne, these would appear to be from the very first batch of Fiesta :shock:  :shock:  :shock: prior to the original 'Lace' pattern.

After looking at the b/w photographs in the 1951 book, Mirror For Chance when the Fiesta range was first announced, the graphic design on the border, and the shape of the first dish, lead me to think they are almost certainly from the same era.

The photo seems to suggest a coloured glass, probably ruby, whereas Anne's dish is clear, and the design in the centre is quite different, but there's no mistaking the similarities of the border.

The only problem is: which pattern?

Other newly unidentified patterns that have come to light are:
Cut Pearl (1958), Canterbury (1973, poss. pictorial?), Blossom (1975), Bamboo (1979)

[Bernard C]

... Chance did not make the drinking glasses/stemware but these were bought in from another manufacturer. ...

Thanks, David.   It's pleasing to know that I was on the right lines.

However, I now think that I was being much too conservative in my speculation.    I have in front of me a Ravenhead Slim Jim, a 1982 Milk Marketing Board gotta lotta bottle glass, and a Chance Calypto tot glass, all in very fine to as new condition.   I can't see any difference in the enamelling.

You said that Chance had simplified the Calypto design for smaller items.   How about changing this to the Calypto design was modified to suit Ravenhead's machine-printing process?   Also I presume that the gold rim was heat-fixed for permanence.    If so, there was no point in going to all the trouble and expense of heating them up twice.   So, in all probability, the gold rims were also applied by Ravenhead.

So, it looks to me as if I have a fine set of Ravenhead glasses, made to a Chance specification and design, which were shipped to Chance just for labelling, boxing, warehousing and distribution.

What do you think?

Bernard C.  

[David E]

That's very interesting: I speculated that perhaps Ravenhead was one possible manufacturer and a photo of the two glasses side by side would add some weight to this.

I'm not sure of how long Ravenhead produced their 'Slim Jim', but I believe the Swirl decoration was dropped in the mid-1960s. Robbo also noted quality differences between some glasses and this does lend some credence to the possibility that Chance did change glassware supplier (or Ravenhead improved their production!) at some stage. I have a photo of some Swirl decorated glassware that does appear to be on good quality glass - see brandy balloon on 'http://Shapes' page - but it's difficult to assess without having the item in front of me.

You said that Chance had simplified the Calypto design for smaller items. How about changing this to the Calypto design was modified to suit Ravenhead's machine-printing process?

A very strong possibility; for Chance's slumpware the enamel was firstly applied to the blank sheet of glass, reheated (which 'fixed' the enamel) and then slumped. I was a little stumped (and slumped) when I first approached this subject, but how they decorated the Handkerchief vases was a big clue – silk-screen printing's not that good!

But it would make sense that with Ravenhead producing glasses and having the ability to decorate them, why create problems by increasing extra levels of production for yourself?

Also I presume that the gold rim was heat-fixed for permanence.

I can't be certain, although it is reasonable to assume as the enamel was fixed in this way. The gilt on the rim had to be finished by hand so this would either have been applied to the blanks before or after slumping. Some pieces of Fiestaware also seem to have far shinier rims but this could just be associated to slight wear and/or aging. Perhaps even how they were stored or displayed?

But the good news is that, according to the Centre when I enquired about speaking to a 1960s factory worker; "oh, there are tons of 'em"!

So, it looks to me as if I have a fine set of Ravenhead glasses, made to a Chance specification and design, which were shipped to Chance just for labelling, boxing, warehousing and distribution.

A strong possibility that could still be answered by Ravenhead.

With regard to works records from Chance, apparently Pilkington have these at St. Helens all boxed up and access has always been denied in the past... but I can ask.

[Anne E.B.]

David, I've checked to see if you have this one in your gallery.  I see you have Max's  "Lace (Black on white)" with no gilt, but mine has no black.  Anyway, here it is... see what you think.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/glassie/e008.jpg

I've done a closeup of the centre to the outside edge.  It looks incredibly like real lace.  The detail is astonishing.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/glassie/h009.jpg

Just out of curiosity, did Chance use well known lace designs for their products - for example Nottingham lace?

Anne E.B. :wink:

[David E]

Hi Anne,

From the information I have to hand, there were six different flavours of Lace: White, Black, Green, Yellow and Blue on clear, plus the Black on White (opaque). A photo of the white on clear version is already there in the left column.

Sadly, I can't confirm where they got the design from, but agree it's incredibly ornate - perhaps this information will come to light in time

[chopin-liszt]

:D:D

I've got at least 3 different sizes of Calypto pattern (as in the print bit). There are some pieces, eg a long sandwich plate thing with 3 sections slumped (presumably for different flavours of nibble) into it, with each section being decorated individually, like a big plate. There is a small long plate, with a smaller pattern on it, then there is the tiny size that is on the glasses and fruit/ice-cream type of bowls on a stem. I've got one of them with it's Chance label still intact.

I think trippy flower 2 might be a carnation? Possibly a couple of geraniums as well? One flower at least looks like carnation, the one with the raggedy edged petals, as if cut with pinking shears. The leaves are geranium-like though! Carnation leaves are long and spikey.

The Fiesta Glass pint mug I have has France on it's bottom, so that's not Ravenhead. :?

[David E]

Sue, thanks for the information. The 3-segment tray I'm also aware of, but the Calypto pattern is less common, I feel.

As with all the Chance items, having the sizes would be excellent as I'm attempting to catalogue these as well. While I have most (all?) of the shapes categorised I'm not sure which pattern relates to which shape!

If you look at the 'Patterns' page there has been a major revamp and new unidentified patterns have been included.

[chopin-liszt]

:D:?

A few weeks ago I picked up in a local charity shop (and bought!) a triangular, clear, smoky-grey, float-slumped tit-bit dish......

I put it in my dishwasher, then in my kitchen cupboard. I didn't think it was Chance, being clear, unprinted and so on. I thought I might well use it.

It's a sort of right-angled triangle, all 3 sides differing lengths, the sides are slightly curved, like the potential Ocean/Golden Spray.

Could this be Grey Dawn?

Today, In TKMaxx, I saw a dish exactly the same shape, with a sort of woven material texture on one side and 3 coloured stripes around the other. It's label read "Joseph Joseph". I did not buy it.

[David E]

:D:?

A few weeks ago I picked up in a local charity shop (and bought!) a triangular, clear, smoky-grey, float-slumped tit-bit dish......

<snip>

Could this be Grey Dawn?

Today, In TKMaxx, I saw a dish exactly the same shape, with a sort of woven material texture on one side and 3 coloured stripes around the other. It's label read "Joseph Joseph". I did not buy it.

Joseph Joseph are the Standard Bearers'of the Chance legacy, so to speak! Michael Joseph bought up the rights to produce the Chance designs under the trading name Fiesta Glass Ltd, although is now called 'The Glass Company'. His twin sons operate Joseph Joseph Ltd. which appears to be a design studio selling their father's glass but with their decorations (some very nice ones):

http://www.josephjoseph.com

At one stage they did a Swirl pattern that had a definite link to the original. You can find a 50th Anniversary to Swirl (1955-2005) on my site. Here you'll also see a version of their Swirl pattern.

[chopin-liszt]

:cry:

I've found and id'd another floral pattern!

"Royal Bride" which is a garland of pink (using a paler and a darker pink) roses, with grey leaves and grey feathery bits. It's pretty vile, I had to fork out £4.99 for two 9" long oval dishes, in box (mesh style) with label on box, stating Royal Bride, Cat. No. 164 (number in biro). No label on bits. Got a boxed Anenome too, Cat. No. 165.

Funnily enough, the "Bouquet" is Cat. No. 166. I bought that yonks ago!