Topic: Mystery Trinket Set 41

[Jayne]

Oh well done Anne, yes i also sent a message to the seller regarding using the pics for reference purposes.   :X:

[Paul S.]

have looked (albeit rather briefly) at some people's collections, but wasn't aware of seeing this one  -  bit of a yellowy green I thought, and a very good glow.       Probably nothing special, but would be interested if it had a name  -  thanks for looking.

[Anne]

Libochovice pattern 1700.  Shown in the 1920's catalogue.
http://www.glasstrinketsets.com/cms15/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=147&Itemid=143

[Jayne]

Hi Paul and Anne, I'm pretty sure I have the same tray, it's stunning in the sun where I took the pics below, and feels so smooth and heavy, lovely!

Anne, do you remember when I found that Ebay listing with AWS (August Walther & Sohne) labels, (he said they were on two pots I think) and it ended up that we both got permission to use his pics, it totally matches Walther Prismen 1931 & 1933 (apart from the portrayed tray flute count). And the set seems identical to the Libochovice 1700 set as well (apart from the portrayed tray flute count once again). I checked all the measurements the seller gave and they all matched the Prismen measurememnts. Maybe they shared/sold moulds or possibly the Prismen tray is yet to be found, I've seen one in rectangular, but never in oval, what do you think? (I believe the Ebay set has the same tray as ours Paul)

http://www.glas-musterbuch.de/Walther-1931.116+B6YmFja1BJRD0xMTYmcHJvZHVjdElEPTUxNTImcGlkX3Byb2R1Y3Q9MTE2JmRldGFpbD0_.0.html

http://www.glas-musterbuch.de/Walther-1933.34+B6YmFja1BJRD0zNCZwcm9kdWN0SUQ9MTM2NCZwaWRfcHJvZHVjdD0zNCZkZXRhaWw9.0.html

http://www.glas-musterbuch.de/Libochovice-circa-1925-1928.118+B6YmFja1BJRD0xMTgmcHJvZHVjdElEPTUyNTEmcGlkX3Byb2R1Y3Q9MTE4JmRldGFpbD0_.0.html

Anyway I uploaded the set and pictures of the labels to my Picasa web albums here, you may want to take a look as well Paul.

https://picasaweb.google.com/110334403734832833238/WaltherSohnePrismen19311933#

[Paul S.]

many thanks to both of you for your help and time        There don't seem to be any trinket sets shown in the Walther catalogue for 1925, and this Prismen set is first seen in their 1931 list, so I guess that if anyone is taking from anyone, on the surface it appears that Walther might have borrowed from Libochovice - since the Czech. factory were offering first as pointed out by Anne.   

As you say Jayne, there certainly was a separate tray design from Walther for their Prismen trinket tray (the double star burst rays), although it seems that none of us has yet  found one (including Pamela), and knowing this, do you think it technically safe to include the tray design of mine as being part of the Prismen set?  -  which according to the Walther catalogue it wasn't.              I'm not trying to be picky - you girls know light years more than me about these things - just that it seems this single star burst wasn't a Walther design (despite the other pieces being correct for Walther).
I agree about the colour and texture of this set - these satinized surfaces are almost erotic to the touch - and this shade of uranium is quite lurid in the sun or with a torch.
Anyway, thanks for the id and I will put away in the shed for a while.

Yesterday morning was obviously a 'Walther uranium morning' at the boot sale...........in addition to this tray, I found the pelican centre piece that goes with the bowl of the same name (I had the bowl once but gave it away), and an undamaged pair of 'Mary' candlesticks (from the 1937 catalogue - I think Pamela says 1936, but I can't see a '36 catalogue) - pictures attached - I think these are stand alone sticks.         
I'm very happy if anyone wishes to use these pictures for reference on their own site.

By the way Jayne, my compliments on your photography, makes my efforts look a little naff - I must come round for some lessons    

[Anne]

Hi both!  I looked again at the Walther Prismen versus Libochovice 1700 set, and the lids of the pots differ in the catalogue, as does the design of the ringholder as well of the tray!

The Prismen pots have widely spaced spear-shapes on the lids, the 1700 has a closer almost daisy petal pattern on them, but I seem to recall that my pots have a pattern closer to that of Prismen!

The ringholder in Prismen is bowl shaped with a saw-toothed rim, the 1700 one is wider with an inverted, almost cushion-shaped base and a less jagged rim.  The oval Prismen tray also has the saw-toothed rim of course.

What I can't remember is what the bases of the 1700 pots look like so I'll have to go check. I do have a full set of the Lib 1700 pattern somewhere.  I'm not sure if I have any Prismen pieces to compare with though.

I'll rummage and report back! 

[Jayne]

Nooo not the shed Paul, it's much too nice and erotic for the shed!

Definitely not technically safe to include it as Walther Prismen, I just wanted to throw it out there for info really, I will adjust my photo album title since the labels were only on the pots and yes Anne, it doesn't seem to match the catalogue drawings properly, it just seemed such a good match looks and colourwise I thought it was worth mentioning. You're right Anne there appear to be a lot of small differences in the two set portrayals, even the candlesticks look different now I look again, with the Lib ones seeming to have some grooves on the cup, and the Walther pots appear to come to a point (or have a tiny blob) at the top of the finial too.

As you say Paul, it would appear that Walther would have taken from Libochovice if anything, but another thought occurred to me, did Libochovice make anything much in this satinised type finish? I've seen photos of a few sets on Ebay in the style, but always in the clear shiny type colours, and the photos have never been good enough to make any judgement on the pots sticks or ring holder, the tray however, has always seemingly had the single starburst amount.

We definitely need some photo comparisons. Anne I think possibly your mystery set 41 (Lib tray maybe?) http://www.glasstrinketsets.com/cms15/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=198:mystery-set-41&catid=28:mysteries&Itemid=52 and 58 (Prismen sticks maybe?) http://www.glasstrinketsets.com/cms15/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=214:mystery-set-58&catid=28:mysteries&Itemid=52 could possibly be tied in with these two sets also.

Paul, nice Mary Candlesticks! You had a great boot sale day there with the Pelican finds too, well done! There are two types of Mary sticks, 1936 and 1937, the 1936 catalogue is here, http://www.pressglas-korrespondenz.de/aktuelles/pdf/pk-2002-3-2-mb-walther-1936.pdf page 17. Your shape ones do appear with oval and rectangular what appear to be Roland trays, and some as yet unidentified pots that could well be Mystery Set 50. http://www.glasstrinketsets.com/cms15/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=206:mystery-set-50&catid=28:mysteries&Itemid=52 and sometimes flanking a clock. I have the same sticks in clear uranium which came with what appears to be a Roland tray also, pics still in the camera at the moment. Thanks for the compliment by the way, but I'm no photgrapher, I just take loads of pics and choose the best ones!

I'll await your rummaging with anticipation Anne, I'm also trying to get hold of some comparisons myself.

[Jayne]

Pic of Walther Mary 1936 Candlesticks with possibly Roland tray and unidentified but often seen with these other pieces trinket pots.

[Paul S.]

thanks Jayne - I'd agree it's a shame to hide such nice pieces - however, if you could see how much glass I had, you'd then appreciate why some has to go into the shed.       I don't collect trinket sets, seriously, but just pick up the occasional pieces if they are in uranium.
My thanks also for the link showing the Walther catalogue for 1936 - it never ceases to amaze me the beauty and complexity of some of the output from Walther during that period, and we're lucky to have such people as Pamela, Dirk and Herr Geiselberger who help to make these older catalogues available for us Brits.

I don't know how the satinized finishes were produced - was it acid or sand blasting - but whatever, they are attractive.

[Anne]

Jayne, yes you're right about those two mystery entries...  the candlesticks on mystery set 41 are totally different but the rest does match the Lib set. The other pair of candlesticks could be one of several options, so the jury's still out on those.

Paul, I've been unpacking and photographing the batch you sent to me via Christine, and a huge thank you again for passing them onto me for the GTS website.    There are some new patterns in there, so more mysteries for us to ponder over soon.