Topic: cut bowl/dish pattern for dating please.

[Paul S.]

Purchased very recently for almost pennies, with description which read 'pressed glass dish'     Regrettably, no makers name or identifying marks, and has more chips than McDonalds, but the sort of thing that I find of interest, so although attribution probably impossible, maybe someone will have an idea of approximate date of manufacture.
Diameter is something like 9.5" - 240mm, and with decoration consisting almost entirely of cut fans and strawberry diamonds/checkering.    The outline shape of the rim is, I guess, would be called scalloped, and the very edge covered entirely with facets  -  plus it does have a 'ding', so some lead content.     A few very small seeds plus some slightly larger bubbles.           I get the impression this is not a modern pattern of cut, and combined with the excessive visible wear, might give a C19 date, possibly.    Grateful for anyone's ideas, and thanks as always for looking.

[neilh]

I have a few dozen images of early pressed plates from the Manchester factories and your design does not match them, so unlikely to be from this area. Scalloped fan edges first appeared with regularity on Manchester registrations from 1880 onwards. On that basis I would say your plate is unlikely to be much before 1880.

Of course this assumes the above holds for cut pieces as well. I do have a few images of Manchester cut plates / dishes going up to 1873 and no fan-shaped scallops are to be seen...

[Paul S.]

thanks for your reply.      I've only recently made some efforts to collect/look at cut material, so don't have much experience to help me.     Don't have much in my books either - Reynolds book on Walsh offers some patterns (but of course only Walsh material) - and Wilkinson does give a little historical background on cut pieces in reference to Irish and English styles, and Elville shows only a few illustrations.    Must admit I was taking a bit of a flyer with my comments on date, although did get a distinct impression that these fan cuts combined with strawberry diamonds wasn't a modern style of decoration for cut glass.   Having re-thought about age, I might perhaps extend my original ideas on date to include the first twenty years of the C20, although still not really sure.   
I haven't much of an idea as to what extent C19 pressed glass patterns copied/imitated actual cut glass designs (especially in the second half of the C19), although presumably that was what originally pressed glass was trying to do  -  offer the masses a way of owning something that looked like the real thing, but for a fraction of the price.
Some pressed pieces that I have from that period immitate cut material so well, that they really do need to be examined by hand to prove that they aren't cut glass.

[rosieposie]

Had you considered American glass Paul?  
I know it isn't a match  but there are similarities, and a wild goose chase can sometimes ....well have a look:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nice-Antique-ABP-Cut-Glass-Bowl-Fan-Design-/140565254313

and this...same pattern as above, I think, but with a name....

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/2568347

[Paul S.]

thanks Rosie  -  and no, I hadn't considered the States.       Your linked references come reasonably close in design, so I will keep an open mind unless I suddenly discover the exact match.    Always prone to forgetting that it's not only people that travel  -  glass does it as well.

[krsilber]

Doesn't look American to me.  If the cross-hatching isn't polished (it doesn't look like it, but hard to tell), it's very unlikely to be American, plus the design just doesn't look like ABP.