Topic: Red marbled vase with enamel, Loetz Marmoriertes Carneol? or Harrach? other?

[flying free]

Anita yes it does look as though it is written in a similar way.  In addition there is another mark further down that page, which is the Harrach feathers mark and a number and it looks as though it was applied in the same way with pale enamel, as mine.  To be honest mine is so worn off that I had a hard time working it out at all without a loup and it was only by photographing it that I could read it (hence the base shot looking so dark which it isn't in reality).
I did find another vase id'd as Harrach that is a similarish shape to mine... but it is really only 'similarish' and whilst it is difficult to tell from photographs, my instinct still says mine looks more like the ones id'd as Loetz on that page 87 (see my comments above about the body and neck of the vase).
So I have  question...were the photographs in the Truitt's book based on the catalogued Loetz shapes for id?  If so that should confirm their id and I wonder if my (and your) vase shape might be in the pattern books?
I don't have Ricke or Truitt's yet, so until then I'm just working in the dark. 
thanks again 
m

[TxSilver]

I checked Truitt's book and see a couple of my vases there on pages 86-87. At the time the book was written, it was the best knowledge of the time. Since then, many people have done more work on Bohemian glass. There are many mistakes in the book that have been revealed with the additional research. This is not to discredit the book, only to credit the additional research that has revealed the new attributions. I would trust what looks to be a mark on the bottom of your vase more than I would trust the book.

This is a most helpful thread. Bohemian glass is often difficult to attribute correctly. This makes me question about half of the carneol vases that I had attributed to Loetz. I am fairly confident about the ones with the moriage collars, but not so sure about the others now.

[flying free]

Interesting and thanks  :sun: I am trying to get a better picture of the mark on mine, taking it under a magnifying glass to try and get the bottom mark in as well, but not having much luck at the moment.  I have searched extensively before posting, to try and match the enamelling  and also the shape as Harrach, but nothing so far.  However, it is difficult because apart from the one I did find as a near shape where I think the id is genuine, I never know if the attribution is based on fact or just internet id if you see what I mean   I'll let you know if I find out any more. 
thanks again
m

[flying free]

I've seen another vase (not Marmoriertes) late 1880's, that has 'Moser' and a number enamelled on the base of it.  Decorated by Moser but not made by Moser.  So would I be right in thinking mine could be a Loetz Marmoriertes vase with another house enamelling it and therefore the mark on the base is the enamellers mark?  Or would that not have happened with Loetz pieces?  
I have seen reference that Harrach blanks were used by Moser - and I assume other enamellers as well from that?#
m

[johnphilip]

I know Moser enamelled on Salviati blanks , i had a couple in the canine and flora pattern , so i suppose there were others used , mine sold at the major Bond St Auction house a while back .

 

[flying free]

Thank you JP   
Do we know that Loetz sold/collaborated with others for enamelling or were they always done in house?
I'm still thinking this is a Loetz piece, I've found another page of the Truitts book and a few further pieces and the marbling and colour of mine matches them, and I've seen a few more pieces with variation on the enamelling, though not a match for mine.

And I now don't think the enamel mark on the base ties it particularly to Harrach, because I have seen a piece enamelled with Moser on the base that is in similar style lettering (perhaps this was the 'in' way of the day)and similarly applied pale enamel (as far as I can tell from photos of course).  Therefore this could well be an enamellers mark rather than specifically a Harrach mark I think 
m

[johnphilip]

Well my gut feeling is Loetz but Mike M IS more knowledgeable in that stable .  The other guy to ask is Mike Weedon in Camden Passage but i dont believe he is a GMB member , he is a Major dealer in that type of glass . The two of them are as near as you will get to an expert in GB .

[flying free]

thank you  :sun:
more pictures of the base for reference.  I cannot get the bottom mark any better, it is very worn but definitely there as I can feel it with my fingers as well.
I think the top mark reads P.588. or P.688. and the bottom may be 5/2 but that is a real best guess.
m

[flying free]

found another marmoriertes vase in malachite (green no white interior, heavily gilded) but with a number enamelled on the base, or rather gilded.
So Loetz pieces were numbered sometimes.
And just found another on a deep pink carneol piece with the heavy neck decoration but the delicate enamel decoration on the heavy background is the same flower and such similar curly leaf bits that it looks to be the same house decorator.  Feeling good  

m

[johnphilip]

Hi M did you know you now have a stalker . :pb