Topic: Engraved or cut? antique? clear footed bowl with underplate

[krsilber]

Interesting conversation!  A lovely little set you have there, and others have shown some very nice glass as well.  Engraved glass is my thang, and it's nice to see a long thread about it.  Haven't been around for a while.

Glass definitions are so tough because they're so variable.  Take "rock crystal."  Originally it referred to a style of deep engraving that covered much of the surface of a piece and was entirely polished, as others have indicated.  I guess that's still true in the UK, but over here it has been used differently, so that some companies came to call all entirely polished patterns, rock crystal.  Libby had a line of stemware called Rock Crystal, though the engraving is nothing like what was originally meant by the term.

Intaglio has always been a tough one to pin down - it seems like everyone has their own definition.  Based on a keen interest and resulting research, to me intaglio can in general be described as deep engraving, usually done with a stone or diamond wheel, followed by copper wheel engraved detail.  There isn't always a clear distinction, but generally if a design is engraved entirely with a copper wheel it's probably not intaglio.  The engraving in the OP I wouldn't consider intaglio.  This could be another geographic difference, but Hajdamach also describes intaglio as being stone cut.  He doesn't say anything about copper wheel details, but they were certainly added to a lot of what is now known as intaglio, which includes a lot more than the type of pieces he discusses (in the 1800-1924 book).

Someone said this was marked as being made in England, but I didn't see where Flying Free said that.  Is it the case or not?  That design could easily have been done by Hawkes, Sinclaire, or the like (it's not Pairpoint as far as I can tell).  It looks quite familiar, actually.  Is either piece marked?  Some American etched sigs are very very hard to see.

[flying free]

 hmmm, food for thought and I need time to investigate all the possible many options.
Kristi thank you for taking the time to look and reply in such detail and for adding further names to Ohio's for me to look up.  Also to everyone who has provided  thoughts, very detailed responses and examples as well   
Paul, I can see what you mean about the little plate possibly being a stand alone piece and you could be right, but the bowl fits perfectly into the dip in it and somehow in the flesh, they just seem to be right that way.  OTOH if you started dropping pips into it, they would just all fall on the foot of the bowl as there is no room round the bowl foot, it 'slots' into the dip and then there is a raised rim for the plate, no spare space in the dip.
I now feel obliged to go and find out more information on this piece - I may be some time 
m

[krsilber]

Looks like what is commonly called over here a mayonnaise set.

[Paul S.]

Kristi  -  it would appear that m's piece is not marked at all  -  it was in fact one of my pieces that was being shown for comparison that is marked 'MADE IN ENGLAND'.

[chopin-liszt]

I had thought intaglio was very simply defined - it's the pattern cut in to a piece - as opposed to cameo, where the pattern sticks out.

[Paul S.]

quote ..............."as opposed to cameo, where the pattern sticks out".    So what happened to the good old fashioned description of  'in relief'     I think Lustrousstone had already given the definition of intaglio, and would believe this covers all cutting/decoration that goes below the original surface plane of the glass.    I don't think, however, that this piece could in any way be described as 'cut glass' (in the sense of deep mitres), but rather as wheel engraved decoration.         krsilber is probably right in suggesting this is one of those definitions depending on which side of the pond you live.

[chopin-liszt]

"Relief" can stick out or in.  :spls:
And the words cameo and intaglio refer to relief in other materials as well as glass.

[Lustrousstone]

Relief sticks out according to the dictionary, so cameo is relief and intaglio is not.

[Leni]

Coming to this thread late (lots of grandchildren visiting over half term  ) I have found it very interesting and helpful!  I collect this sort of glass too, and have many examples of similar flower decoration as in the first post.  These are very difficult to pin down to a single company or engraver, as I think many people did the same sort of thing.  Also, I find cut and engraved glass the most difficult to photograph!   

I would love to find out more information and names of the engravers and cutters responsible for this type of work, and thank you all for the pictures and comments posted so far.  Please lets have more about cut and engraved glass!   :smg:  (Sorry, Sue  )

Here's a couple of (not very good) pics of some pieces from my collection which I think have similar (but not the same!) flower engraving.     

[Paul S.]

hello Leni  -    You don't give the size of your 'Webb's footed bowl', but it has the shape and outline of a cigarette holder  -  not I don't think a bowl, since it's not round.    I do know that pieces of a similar 'squashed' shape were used for holding cigarettes, and were something like 3.1/2" tall - there are some shown in one of the Barrie Skelcher books - they date to about 1935, and came with plain and upturned feet.

As a suggestion, how about describing glass showing cut decoration similar to most of the pieces in this thread, as simply 'wheel engraved' - and those (usually larger) pieces with standard mitre type decoration as 'cut glass'.