Topic: Blue,white,green and touch of red scramble millefiori

[tropdevin]

Hi

There have been various articles / talks / bits of research into Charles Bredgen (there are several spellings of his name) over the years, and I need to refresh my memory as to quite what the present understanding (or lack thereof...) might be.  There is also an argument to be made that Grenelle did not exist as factory, but only as a retail outlet (Don French presented a case for that in a talk at a PCC meeting a couple of years ago).   If you can email me, I can send you some relevant images / pdfs.
Alan

[flying free]

Interesting.  The link I gave  has the listing as :


'Cristaux (fabric. de):
Biedgen (C.) fils,  CRISTALLERIE DE GRENELLE, artistes de fantaisie, presee-papiers et tout genre ...'  etc.


I'm unsure whether the (fabric. de) indicates they were makers of or purveyors of as there is another name listed underneath with a similar description.

They are still appearing in 1859 directory but as Bredgem C.  - see page 1266
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Annuaire_almanach_du_commerce_de_l_indus/bdeT1Xx4ZSwC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=cristallerie+grenelle&pg=RA8-PP2&printsec=frontcover

And a description here on page 119 of a visit in the 1870s(?) to 'la cristallerie de Grenelle pour la fabrication du verre;'
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Bulletin_de_la_Soci%C3%A9t%C3%A9_Franklin/h-4k1jEw_kAC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=cristallerie+grenelle&pg=PA75&printsec=frontcover


This is 1857 - also mentioned Grenelle and Bercy although I thought Bercy was gone by then: (see column 702)
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Troisi%C3%A8me_et_derni%C3%A8re_Encyclop%C3%A9die_th/GdcqAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=cristallerie+grenelle&pg=PA701&printsec=frontcover

Thank you Alan. I will do.

[flying free]

There is no mention in the 1867 exhibition catalogue of either Grenelle or Saint Mande - see pages 18, 19 and 20 for list:

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Catalogue_g%C3%A9n%C3%A9ral/R58yBzQoKBYC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=cristallerie+grenelle&pg=RA3-PA18&printsec=frontcover

[flying free]

I think I was mistaken about the rose canes in my weight.  There are something like 12 or so rose canes and having looked very closely at them, there seems to be two different kinds - most are plain white with green sepals, but the little pink complex canes I pointed out on the previous message actually seem to be the middles of some of the rose canes.  I have now found a good example of one right on the edge which is white with the complex pink centre and also has green sepals. (see top pic below)
It also seems where there are what looked like the twin pink millefiori, it is in fact two rose canes with pink centres sat squished together - there are two sets of these, but one set has another blue and green cane put between it to separate the pink middles.
I'm not sure if this helps or confuses things. I'll add some more close up pictures which may help a bit

Just requoting this as I'm pretty sure the rose canes in the paperweight I linked to above (will edit to add reference) , which is listed as Grenelle on the Boisgirard-Antonini site are the same as those in my paperweight:
https://www.boisgirard-antonini.com/lot/grenelle-presse-papiers-a-motif-de-panier-millefiori-compose-de-trois-cercles-c-3/

Mine here for comparison:
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=47540.0;attach=102019;image

[flying free]

...


Another here as well also listed as Grenelle:
https://www.boisgirard-antonini.com/lot/grenelle-presse-papiers-a-motif-de-deux-cercles-concentriques-lun-compose-de/

The rose looks to be the same as in mine and there is a distinct similarity in the canes with cobalt blue outers  - the colours of the inners and design looks to be remarkably similar to one in mine but the colours are transposed.

See cane at 9 o'clock in mine on this photograph:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=47540.0;attach=102025;image

Better photo of the cane in mine here at 12:
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=47540.0;attach=102077;image

[flying free]

There is some potentially interesting information here in Pressglas Korrespondenz Seite 12 right hand column.  A reference to a donation of glass from a Nocus and Bredghem
'and in
1843 Nocus and Bredghem of the Saint-Mandé
glassworks'
https://pressglas-korrespondenz.de/aktuelles/pdf/pk-2017-2w-sg-pw-ader-saint-mande-1840.pdf

The Bredghem possibly being the C. Bredgen/Bredgem/Biedgen ? but a reference to Saint-Mande glassworks.

And there is more information on Saint-Mande in the following pages.

I guess what's missing is definitive information on the Grenelle manufactory? Was it a manufactory or a purveyor of glass?

[flying free]

Jargsdorf says Saint-Mande survived until 1848.

m

[flying free]

There is some potentially interesting information here in Pressglas Korrespondenz Seite 12 right hand column.  A reference to a donation of glass from a Nocus and Bredghem
'and in
1843 Nocus and Bredghem of the Saint-Mandé
glassworks'


https://pressglas-korrespondenz.de/aktuelles/pdf/pk-2017-2w-sg-pw-ader-saint-mande-1840.pdf

The Bredghem possibly being the C. Bredgen/Bredgem/Biedgen ? but a reference to Saint-Mande glassworks.

And there is more information on Saint-Mande in the following pages.

I guess what's missing is definitive information on the Grenelle manufactory? Was it a manufactory or a purveyor of glass?

Link here to the evidence of that donation from Saint-Mande and Nocus and Bredghem:
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Description_methodique_du_musee_ceramiqu/Z0BJAAAAcAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=bredghem+nocus+villete&pg=PA383&printsec=frontcover

See page 383
Description Methodique du Musee Ceramique de la manufacture Royale de porcelaine de Sevres dated 1845

[flying free]

On page 29 of Curiosities of Glass-making(1849), Apsley Pellat discusses incrustations.  He says 'about 40 years since' and talks about Bohemian attempts to incrust glass which were mostly not successful from how I understood what he wrote.

He then goes on to talk about the idea being taken up by the French manufacturers who succeeded in incrusting several medallions of 'Buonaparte'.  Says it technique was very expensive and on the point of being abandoned when it was 'fortunately taken up by a French gentleman, Monsieur de St. Amans'.  Do we know who Monsieur 'de St. Amans' was?  It just seems remarkably similar to Saint-Mande but appreciate this could be a big coincidence.

m

[flying free]

Talking of Bonaparte.  It occurred to me that this group of (closely aligned to my eye, seemingly by the same hand/maker) specifically coloured weights have a political message or a political leaning from the maker. They appear to be red white and green (Italian flag colours) mixed with red white and blue (French flag colours).
Not that the thought helps with identifying the maker as perhaps they just reflected governmental colours of the time or something?

m