Topic: My last assumption ? Dating Monart

[Frank]

Having dispensed with my assumption that only Strathearn used the cream colour let us see if we can crush the other big assumption too.

These things need to be done as assumptions lead to errors. I have never published this assumption as a fact because it was and still is an an assumption.

During the eighties and early nineties I owned about 8 or 900 pieces of Monart, I also visited and handled 50 plus collections so probably in total somewhere between 2 and 4 thousand pieces. One of things I was looking for was a correaltion between post war labelled pieces and features of the glass.

I found one, the highly polished base ring when found on a labelled piece only ever occured on a post war label. Knowing that Paul had higher standards than Paul it was eas to make the assumption that he introduced the idea of finishing the base to a better standard than his father had allowed. You do get ground and polished rings on pre-war labelled pieces but it was only ground sufficiently to resolve any instability in the piece. On Ware labelled pieces, slightly ground outer rings did occur but I only ever saw a couple and there was doubt that the labels had not been added later.

To dispel the assumption check through your collections and post a picture of any pre-war labelled pieces with highly finished bases.

Perhaps we can even confirm this and declare it as a fact.

Whatever the result, I wil be quite happy

[Gary]

Not exactly what you were looking for Frank, this vase has no grinding on the outer ring of base, which is indicative of early Monart finish (1924-192?) but has a Monart Glass label (1929-1939). The colourway 116 is the pre war shade of green. Any thoughts ??
Gary

[Frank]

I think that last catalogue that showed up pushed back the Glass logo to an earlier date. So I see you piece as supporting that... have to find discussion on that catalogue again.

[KevinH]

Frank, did you mean this thread titled "Monart Glass formula ??" ...
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,43560.msg243064.html#msg243064

[Frank]

Thatś the one Kevin, but I am sure the pricelist photos showed the glass label. In any case there was never absolute proof of a 1929 intro date, so being introduced two years earlier is feasible.

On the labels page http://www.ysartglass.com/BaseLabel/Labels.htm I give c.1930 as start date perhaps it would be as well to state late 1920s? It would make is a little more vague and avoid the making of assumptions.


As to your base finish Gary, we cannot assume that the new labels and a change to base finish occurred at the same time, although it is possible had there been a general rethink in quality that embraced the switch from Ware to Glass and a higher standard of finishing. We can apply common sense like that, but it is of course not a fact. But would explain why we do not see the types 2 & 3 with Ware labels. http://www.ysartglass.com/Ysart/IDguide1.htm . Note also that nowhere is it stated that type 1 base was NOT found on 1930s pieces.