Topic: Possible Welz - or Appert Freres, France?

[flying free]

As far as I have read Appert Freres were separate from Legras & Cie and I don't recall reading of a connection.  I will have a look through and see if I can find anything else.

I have read that they made glass for Rousseau to his specific designs and from what I have read I understand they were for his company to cut and engrave and enamel once blown. This was before Rousseau & Leveille  had the facility to create their own glass.
I have also read that Galle had used Appert Freres.

However,I'm still hanging onto the fact that the vases have a snapped off pontil mark and this is not something I associate with Legras or Appert Freres.  It just doesn't feel right.
m

[flying free]

Just to clarify where I read my information:
The Art of French Glass |Janine Bloch-Dermant page 15
'While Emile Galle took particular account of the Apperts' metallic oxide combinations, both he and Eugene Rousseau benefited from advice offered by the brothers.  In their time the glassware exhibited by the Apperts was held to be in no way inferior to the most beautiful Venetian products(plate 2)'.  It is clear in the book btw that Rousseau bought his glass from Appert Freres as well. 

A few points about the vases and my link above
-The vases pictured in my link above are from the Legras catalogue 1899. I guess that doesn't mean they were definitely made at Legras especially given Mike's thread you linked to.
- It has been quoted that at least one of them, the 1177 are in a museum collection listed as Appert Freres.  I wonder if this is a case of mistaken identity on the museums part? 
- Your vases have the same kind of ribbing to the 1177 but are different on the foot and have a three way crimped rim and are a different colourway.   I suppose the theories on this could be they are:
a) a Legras piece but a variation on the range?
b) a piece made in the 'spirit' of Legras by someone else? Or conversely made by Legras in the 'spirit' of something else they'd seen.
c) Yours and the 1177 may be pieces made by the same factory, but not necessarily made by Legras, and that they supplied some to Legras(the ones in the Legras catalogues) and others they sold for themselves (perhaps examples like yours), that maybe had  slight changes to the design and perhaps weren't finished in the same rigorous way as the finish I would have thought would be on the \Legras pieces (I'm assuming this since all the Legras pieces I've seen have had polished pontil marks, but it could of course be the case that they also sold/made pieces with snapped off pontil marks)

m

[flying free]

Kev I saw one of the vases like yours yesterday at the car boot.  The same moulded body ribs and the three wave top.  It had a sharp cracked off pontil mark on the base. It was  a different colour to yours, more the burgundy, dark spatter colours with some white in it.   I didn't feel it was the quality of any of the Welz pieces I own or have owned although that is nothing to go by I recognise.  There were about three being sold with about 15 very  large, what I think are Romanian (are they or did I make that up? I wonder), mottled spatter glass fish.  Those large spatter ones you see on ebay listed as Murano 10" long.  I just wondered whether these three wave top ribbed variation vases are maybe Romanian as well...if indeed the fish are? I suppose what I am questioning is whether the vases perhaps come from the same place as those fish.
Here's a link to the type of fish I mean
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,28881.msg156500.html#msg156500
m

[obscurities]

I would add that when I was at the annual show I go to in Portland, I was quite surprised to see one of these in the same colors and form. It was quite a bit heavier than the Welz pieces I have in the similar colors. The base was also snapped and reasonably unfinished, not a trait I generally associate with Welz production as I have come to understand it....   

It was an interesting piece of glass. they had it tagged as Bohemian or Czech. I would have purchased it for study and comparison but it was very overpriced....  I am glad I got to see and handle it though.....