Topic: Early Old English Glass Collectors out there? Help Please Enamelled Decanter.

[LEGSY]

Wondered if anyone out there can help with this early English decanter it has a large kick up on the base
and a sharp pontil scar from when being made. The body has been Enamelled with Hops & Barley A floral
taste and hatched bordered label for Mountain. The rim has not been ground i was wondering if this might
mean it was a carafe as it has a fairly small height of 7.5"? I have not handled many 18th century decanters
and whilst thinking this might be a mid century one the un ground top has thrown me also if the enamelling
might make it a bit more desirable than an engraved one also wondered where it may have been made thanks
for looking at it .

[NevB]

This should be of interest.

https://antique-collecting.co.uk/2019/10/24/expert-guide-to-buying-antique-glass-decanters/

[LEGSY]

Thanks NevB i think i got the decoration wrong as Mountain is a wine so wouldn't be Hops & Barley
More wine type flora the linked page was interesting sadly no mentioning of enamelled examples when
looking the main top flight enamellers were Beilby family many family members started doing enamels
onto glassware possibly originally with a needle sadly i have not come across another named place that
i can see who also did milky white enamels onto glass as in this one all is enamelled yet looks engraved
really.

[Ekimp]

In his decanter book, McConnell discusses the Beilbys and shows some examples that I would say are similar to yours but probably more finely decorated. He says “…several unidentified enamelers were working in the North-East and Scotland concurrently” so making attribution difficult.

Here is a Beilby decanter at the V&A https://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O5416/decanter-beilby-william/

McConnell also mentions Michael Edkins who established a decorating shop in Bristol c.1760, sounds like he did similar work but nothing has been positively attributed to him, his work being unsigned.

McConnell talks about monochrome enamel, such as Beilby’s being mostly applied “in a bluish opaque-white” but doesn’t say that they were imitating engraving/grinding.

There is a similar type of decorating process discussed here: https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,70876.msg394467.html#msg394467
There is a link from flying free that describes an 1806 patent from Davenport for producing an applied finish that resembles grinding. The finish on your decanter does look like grinding (more so than the v&a example), interesting that it wasn’t a process mentioned by Davenport if your decanter predated Davenports patent by decades?

[LEGSY]

Thanks very much for taking the time to make a great reply thanks Ekimp for that the technique patented by Davenport is quite similar in its application or effect i would suggest the decanter is a fair bit earlier yes and more crudely or naive in its application more than likely quickly applied for a desired effect.
The Actual color of mountain is quite thick white but the surrounding decoration is bluish in it thinner application. Certainly looks like
brush strokes in larger areas and highlights scratched through. Possibly early efforts at speeding up manufacturing processes in some
way i have found a very similar example with an ALE label which is in the collection at the museum called Corning museum of glass the
decoration must have been done at the same place in my opinion sadly they do not attribute although give a date of 1760-70 . And has
a hollow ball stopper i never thought they were an early stopper of that period..

[oldglassman]

Hi ,
I strongly suspect that your carafe is from the Beilby workshop , it employs 2 types of enamelling, wash and raised, the lettering is raised  ie thick and the other is very thin, wash enamel.

attached is one in my collection that has been seen by a few fellow glass collectors who agreed with the attribution.

cheers,

Peter.

[thewingedsphinx]

I read the Beilby odyssey book a couple of weeks ago, my memory isn’t great and I’ve given the book back to the owner, I think this more plain enamelling was done by the Thomas Bielby sister ( name could be wrong) worth getting the book, I think it’s a great decanter you just need the stopper now.

[LEGSY]

All i can say is i am bowled over with the news as it has always been a name
i have thought wouldn't that be nice to find a piece of on my travels Thanks
Peter always find your knowledge and collection to be spot on. Will also look at
reading the book mentioned by Winged Phoenix 

[Ekimp]

Thanks for showing the extra closeup photos Legsy.