Topic: Large engraved glass celery vase, ferns/leaves, footed old? lots of wear on foot

[Ivo]

you can discount bulb vase.

[flying free]

thank you
m

[Paul S.]

Keith was thinking of the Stuart 'Woodchester' fern perhaps.

Take it that someone's looked through Patricia's book and assume there's nothing that comes close??

Never seen a celery remotely with a pan topped shape  -  agree re the fern being second half C19 style, but usually they're seen with much lighter and more of a free hand shallow wheel engraving  -  not with this deeper Stuart type of cut.   Was going to say Continental with that vertical series of punty like ovals, but really no idea.         

Assume it's not lead glass

C19 pieces that were created with pan tops, were made as such because something additional was placed in the top  -  so all we have to do is discover what went in the top and we're home and dry.          It's a very large 'top' glass for a sweetmeat salver

[flying free]

thank you.
It rings.
I can't see that anything sat in the top 
Any thoughts on whether it might be earlier than mid to late 19th?

m

[flying free]

ps, there is a black 'seed' in the foot and also a few stray bubbles and the edge of the foot is 1/8" thick.

[flying free]

see posts above in answer to Paul's questions.
Don't laugh  but I'm just linking to some odd shaped early glass I came across trying to 'brainstorm' why my vase might have this shape.
I did wonder if it was perhaps supposed to have some sort of lid on it maybe as one option

I don't *think* it's supposed to be the other way up but here's an odd two piece tazza with a pedestal stand attached -
http://www.antiqueglass.co.uk/Enlargement.php?StockID=258

here's a lidded honey jar with what looks like a pan top rim - maybe mine is a large storage pot/jar of some sort? -
http://www.antiqueglass.co.uk/Enlargement.php?StockID=180
m

[Lustrousstone]

Pteridomania didn't really get going until the 1850s but I'm not sure those are really ferns; too geometric for Victorian ferns.. I would perhaps put the style late 19th C

That tazza looks wrong. The top is far too small

[flying free]

yes I thought the tazza looked a bit strange and I couldn't see that the decoration matched the stand.
I think they are stylised ferns, but not 'freestyle'.  I've just picked up 20th c British Glass (C.Hajdamach) and on page 30 there is a Stevens and Williams vase with a pan top dating to 1903.  Again at first glance it has that 'bulb vase possibly' type look, but checking the sizes it is 12" tall and it does appear that the neck opening is wide like mine, so probably a design style not a bulb holder vase.

m

[Paul S.]

I've just been through two volumes of Silber & Fleming, and really can't come up with any useful suggestions.           My feeling is that date wise this comes into the C20  -  in the C19, as we've discussed, the fern decoaration was far more loose. whispish and shallow than shown on this piece.
If you don't object m, I'm attaching a couple of pix of typical second half C19 fern wheel engraving to show the difference.
I don't think the seed and few bubbles are enough to define a particular age, unfortunately.

An unusual carafe and tumbler possibly

[flying free]

Ok, thank you Paul for looking through, I really appreciate it
I'll up load one more pic in a  mo but here are some observations:

I've photographed the 'rim' of the top  close up and there are signs of wear on it under close magnification (not possible to see with just casual looking , so it's not obvious wear) - the photo shows one part of the rim but the wear seen on it is around the whole rim.
There are no really obvious signs of significant wear inside the piece, but the base wear right round the edge of the rim of the foot is very signficant, in that it has ground through to a completely matt ring.

So here are some thoughts:
It is possible of course that somone has stood a plate on it, or similar, in storage and hence the wear to the top rim - and of course owners stories could mean anything, but the owner told me her father (old) had said it had sat in his mother's cabinet all his life and that he believed it was an old piece.  Obviously as I say owner's stories can be misleading, but to be honest I believe him.  Obviously that doesn't indicate how old I know that.

So let's say I believe him, and it's sat in his mother's display cabinet for many, many years. 
Added to which there are no very obvious signs of internal wear on it. 
How does it then have such a matt ring of wear on the base?

It's a large and fairly heavy piece but not massively heavy. 
So perhaps it's possible that it's either  older than late 19th early 20thc?
 or that it did have something sitting atop it, balanced in the pan top, not touching any of the interior of the pan top but which was sufficiently heavy enough to grind against the top rim  and also made the whole piece heavy enough to cause such a great degree of wear to the foot - possibly a lid?

m