Topic: Lily of the Valley-unidentified so far

[flying free]

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C3%A8ves_de_Carmaux_de_1892-1895

http://econmemoirs.blogspot.co.uk/2010/12/glassworkers-of-carmaux-review.html

I haven't looked to see whether this fits in terms of dates but wondered if you had come across this glassworks in France?
m

[tropdevin]

***

Hi m.  Interesting - thanks - I had not heard of this factory before (but others may have done).

I think it helps illustrate a point I have long tried to make. Namely, we trend to attribute paperweights to those few factories we know about. For example, you only have to look at paperweight books from the 1950s / 1960s to see that there were only 3 (maybe 4) French factories as far as the authors were concerned.  And Old English paperweights were considered to be either Bacchus or Islington (or Whitefriars, which was completely wrong)  - with Richardson dismissed as a minor player at best. We now know that the majority of Old English paperweights were made by Walsh Walsh, Arculus and Richardson - and also that there are a good number around we cannot attribute at present.

I suspect there are a lot more factories that have made a few paperweights at some time, and which we are yet to identify - and that this is true of most glass making countries in Europe.

Alan

[flying free]

Just in case someone tries to search in the future:
Verrerie Sainte Clothilde
Glassworks Carmaux

Alan, I just came across this through looking up Joan Scott's work via something else so thought it might come in useful in the future.

I'd not known of them before (but that's not saying anything) however I'd not come across them mentioned in anything else I'd looked up, and I've been doing quite a lot of searching on old French glass.
The information  gives an interesting social perspective.  This is something I also came across in another piece of work from an American who had been 'on tour'  to check out the 'competition', at around the same time or just a few years after, and who had been looking at Bohemian, English and Belgian glassworks.  I find it fascinating to know the social implications of the industry as well as the glass produced.

m

m

[flying free]

http://www.carmaux.fr/Patrimoine-verrier-_33.php

It seems Saint Clothilde produced bottles in the main.
It says buyers were from the areas of
 Montauban, Toulouse and Bordeaux.

A little more information here although I found it difficult to understand.  Does it say that another later glassworks arose  out of the closure of Verreries Saint Clothilde?  Albi glassworks from 1896?

There is a museum in the area that has a collection of antique glass
http://www.museeverre-tarn.com/spip.php?rubrique26&lang=fr

[tropdevin]

***

Hi m.

I too read it to say that the striking workers finally managed - with donations - to set up their own factory at Albi.

As you say, the social history and the impact of changing working practices in the 19th century glass industry is fascinating: I believe the only reason we have any Islington paperweights is because Rice Harris (owner of the Islington Glass Works) brought in a group of skilled French glass workers as strike breakers in 1848. I suspect that some of these came from Baccarat.

Alan

[flying free]

That's interesting.  There were also French workers employed in other English factories around that time iirc? I've just been reading about English and German glassworkers who decamped to Norway in the 1700's as well - it seems for quite a long period the glass industry was a good way to work abroad.  I always think of travel as being a fairly recent thing, but clearly not so.
Sorry, that's diverted this post a bit.  I apologise.
m

[Derek]

Hi flying free

Again somewhat off topic but interesting! 

Immigrant glassworkers go back much further - Sir Robert Mansell used workers from Murano and
Antwerp in his English glasshouses as far back as 1647 enticed here by an act passed in the
1640's granting naturalisation to foreign glassworkers. Sir George Hay poached some of
Sir Roberts Italian glassmakers to set up the Scottish glass industry at Loch Maree in 1712.

Best regards

Derek

[w8happiness]

Hello everybody,
what seems off-topic is exactly describing the problem!
A French seller describing an ashtray with the spiral flowers inside as "Murano"- so was it made in France, but by workers immigrated from some place else (Murano?)-
How do antique Baccarat canes move into Russian (Maltsov) vases?
Why are Islington canes in fact French (see Alan's results in PCA and PCC Newsletters etc.)?

-another question could be, does the group of objects stand on it's own, ot does it pretend to be something else?
-on Monday I will know if I've won the next example...

In fact, "wandering" canes are in fact "wandering workers" in some cases... and lampwork is more fragile, so it surely was not shipped or transported a long way before encasing, but made in the place and encased immediately; this may be the difference, because millefiori cane slices can be put in boxes and shipped any place without suffering any damage- lampwork surely won't...Kind regards, E.

[w8happiness]

...have won the lily of the valley, by courtesy of (I hold email of permission) -Auktionshaus Walldorf, Walldorf, Germany, Ms. v. Hafenbroedl- here are two more pictures,

I called the seller, it is attributed most likely from France, late-last quarter of 19th century.
Will soon see if the SG and UV tests will be consistent with the blue L.O.V. weight!

kind regards, E.

[flying free]

A good win

Maybe the date  ' it is attributed most likely from France, late-last quarter of 19th century '
ties in with the advent of this
'France
On May 1, 1561, King Charles IX of France received a lily of the valley as a lucky charm. He decided to offer a lily of the valley each year to the ladies of the court. At the beginning of the 20th century, it became custom to give a sprig of lily of the valley, a symbol of springtime, on May 1. The government permits individuals and workers' organisations to sell them tax-free. Nowadays, people may present loved ones either with bunches of lily of the valley or dog rose flowers.'

I look forward to finding out where these came from

Derek, thanks for the further information.   I wonder if glass is one of the few industries at the time, to need workers from other countries. For example,  I can't see textiles needing incomers to support or develop a new industry iyswim?
m