Topic: John Davenport Glass elephant foot piano rest? Newman Dictionary of Glass

[flying free]

I chanced upon an elephant foot piano rest in the above book and it said it was made by John Davenport.  I thought I'd remembered seeing it was made by John Derbyshire.  A quick check showed it is id'd on the Molineaux Webb glass site as John Derbyshire reg'd in 1884 (same date given in Newman).  I wonder if there's an error in Newman or did they both make these piano feet and register them in the same year?
Anyway, just out of curiosity I looked up Davenport glass and there was one - I couldn't see anything on the board about it
http://www.thepotteries.org/walks/longport/davenport.htm
m

[Paul S.]

looking at your link m, it seems the Davenport dynasty ceased in 1887, so wouldn't have given them much time to beat the Debyshire registration of1884 (my copy of Newman shows c. 1874, and not the 1884 you mention).   
Just for the record I've looked through all of the pressed Registrations from 1868 to 1874, but can't see any mention of Davenport.    Does anyone know if Davenport ever registered any designs??
Could well be an error by Newman.

I expect one of the pressed experts will have the answer for you.

[flying free]

oh yes, no glasses on and you're right, it does say 1874 in Newman.
m

[Paul S.]

I meant to type .......1868 to 1884.....sorry.            The Davenports sound a dysfunctional lot - they don't sound particularly inventive or Registration minded.

[flying free]

Yes it does say that by the late 1860s the family was in dire financial straits.  So it's possibly an error in Newman that should have read John  DERBYSHIRE.
m

[flying free]

' The Davenports sound a dysfunctional lot - they don't sound particularly inventive or Registration minded.'

however in Newman page 88 under Davenport's Patent Glass it says 'Glassware decorated with the intention to imitate ENGRAVING or ETCHING by a process patented in 1806 by John Davenport, an English potter who was also a glass-maker.  The process involved covering the outer surface of glassware with a paste containing powdered glass,then removing the surplus paste so as to leave the intended design and quickly firing at low temperature to fuse the glass powder on to the surface without melting it.  Such glassware is usually inscribed 'Patent' on a label made and affixed by the same method. (see powder decorated glass).

m

[Paul S.]

I'm not aware of any Registrations though - but maybe now you'll find one of those as well.

I happened to be at the V. & A. today, for something unrelated to glass, and had another look at their example of a uranium lion's paw piano insulator.         Obviously, it's in a cabinet, but the combined JD and anchor can be seen on the underside, together with a double set of lozenge marks - one within the top depression and the other on the underside of the foot rim.     The written data says ....'John Derbyshire Registered 1874'  -  and a similar foot (appears to be frosted and not uranium) is shown in Hajdamach (British Glass 1800 - 1914 - page 354), where he gives the exact Registration date of 12th May 1874.

Also just had a look in Miller's 'Popular Glass of the 19th and 20th Centuries' - Raymond Notley - and he shows an example of this design, which appears to be similar to Hajdamach's i.e. frosted.............   but surprisingly although Notley waxes lyrical about insulators and mentions this one specifically, he omits any reference to Derbyshire or Registrations marks - he seems quite keen to attribute other Derbyshire pieces, without hesitation  -  perhaps JD did knock out some examples of this foot without Registration or trade marks.         He also says of the date of his lion's foot.... '1880's'.
I've no idea for how long the 'foot' was produced.

[flying free]

Paul, that's interesting as I think quite a few of the glass items in Newman's seem to have been items from the V & A

But I'm a bit confused now - and it's probably me misunderstanding how to do this reg number thingy

I've just looked up on the Molineaux Webb site and it says under
John Derbyshire - shows a pic of the Mammoth foot insulator dated 1874 and reg no 282260
https://sites.google.com/site/molwebbhistory/Home/registered-designs/derbyshire-brothers-designs-by-date/derbyshire-brothers-1873-1874

Am I doing this wrong then?  I looked up 282260 on the Glass Notes website (see link) and that number is not on there but if it was I think it would fall around 1896?
http://www.great-glass.co.uk/glass%20notes/regnos05.htm

And btw I've seen an example of this insulator I think and walked straight by as I never knew what it was - I'm pretty certain the one I saw was in clear glass.

edited to add - yes it's me doing it wrong - I had the wrong pages
http://www.great-glass.co.uk/glass%20notes/lozenge3.htm
it's here - 282260 John Derbyshire 12 May 1874
m

[Paul S.]

Board of Trade Registration Nos. first started in 1842, and are shown in the form of letters and Nos. within a lozenge, and commenced with No. 1.
Registration numbers, in the form of a lozenge, continued without interuption until 1883 - although the format of the lozenge changed in 1867 -and as a consequence there are two separate methods required in order to interpret the details for each period  i.e. 1842 - 1867 and 1868 - 1883.
Early in 1884 the lozenge was dropped in favour of providing simply the Rd. No. on its own (aside from any additional Trade Mark), and at this date the sequence of numbers re-commenced with No. 1  -  and this effect of repeating a whole series of identical Nos., can be confusing.
However, seems you've solved the puzzle

I believe I'm correct in saying that the uranium lion's foot in your 'molwebbhistorysite' is the example in the V. & A.  -  it looks like the cabinet in the gallery.        I'm well aware that Board members have used museum pix for private webb sites, although my personal opinion is that in view of the help given by the V. & A. and their permission to now use images of their glass on the GMB, we should out of courtesy give acknowledgement to them when this occurs.

Sorry to hear that you walked past a clear lion's foot insulator  -  realization that you've missed something good can prey on the mind for months, and I find it very difficult to get over losing something good due to being thick - can only hope than I get less thick as time goes by.

[flying free]

  No it doesn't' prey on my mind - my big loss was a Webb's cameo vase so everything else pales into insignificance by that
m