Author Topic: Info on Mdina Ornament - Axe head? (Read 20409 times)

chopin-liszt · « **Reply #10 on:** May 07, 2006, 11:17:17 AM »

:D:D

That is positively, definitely, absolutely, Joseph Said's signature.

Send the picture to Mdina - it will be confirmed, (if you get a reply).

The exact height and width of the vase will also affect price, so measurements (in units other than jif lemons :lol: ) would be helpful.

joolslee · « **Reply #11 on:** May 07, 2006, 11:31:54 AM »

Wow thank you for that Sue ... I never thought I would get that sig identified and wouldn't have said it said Said in a million years

... I'm still laughing about the lemon measurement comment :lol: ... in fact it's 26cm wide x 19cm high and depth varies but 6cm at the thickest part.... it's a very heavy piece!
Thank you so much for all your help!! - Julie

chopin-liszt · « **Reply #12 on:** May 07, 2006, 12:47:04 PM »

:D:D

That is a very substantial size. They do come bigger, but not often. It's not as tall as some, but it's wider than others, if that makes any sense! The brown ones don't turn up as often as the blue ones. Amethyst ones are even more rare. (There is an amethyst Said signed one on at the moment, huge!)
I suppose what it makes on eBay will depend on the day, but if you list it describing it correctly, with good pictures, it should fly.
You can accurately say that this is the favourite fish design of a major Mdina collector, though!

joolslee · « **Reply #13 on:** May 08, 2006, 07:58:33 PM »

You were spot on about the signature Sue ... I emailed Mdina and Nevise Said has replied confirming that it is Joseph Said's signature

You know your stuff!!! Thank you again.

chopin-liszt · « **Reply #14 on:** May 08, 2006, 08:40:10 PM »

:oops:

You're welcome!

David555 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 09, 2006, 07:01:08 PM »

Hi Sue that is excellent information

I love Mdina and IOW but have limited knowledge (as you know LOL)

I was looking at the very slight information in L Jackson’s 20thc C Factory Glass and some J Millers collectables – I should know by now not to trust this information. Miller 2004 pp272 shows a spade shaped ‘axe-head’ and a ‘fish’ vase with two bubbles in centre (have you got this book, is this still a fish vase?), Miller 2005 pp313 shows a spade shaped ‘axe-head’

I should have looked at J Miller 2006 pp305 which addresses the former attributions with a whole page on the Mdina fish vase showing different shapes including the one above, my apologies for not being thorough enough. You are right about ‘axe-head’ Sue, no mention is made in the 2006 addition – I have sold a few as axe-heads in the distant past, it sounded so Viking LOL

I can only agree about the price guide, I would easily pay that for this rarer brown colour – I see yours has lovely milky iridescent streaks joolslee – very desirable.

Let us know when you put it up for auction

Thanks

Adam P

joolslee · « **Reply #16 on:** May 09, 2006, 08:32:12 PM »

Hi Adam - well I'm planning to list it on thursday evening after I've posted some better pics on the web page - thank you for taking the time to research your books and the help you gave, it's much appreciated. (And sorry for calling you David in my previous post :oops: )

David555 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 09, 2006, 08:46:55 PM »

Hi

You are very kind, but all thanks go to Sue

I will look out for your listing / auction when ever it comes up

The David555 thing came about because there are three other Adams on the board - I always put my real name is Adam P at the bottom of each post, but I agree it is confusing and should change my screen name to Adam P or something

All best

Adam P

chopin-liszt · « **Reply #18 on:** May 10, 2006, 08:45:13 AM »

:D:D

:lol: Just as long as nobody calls you A. Damp anything!

I've just checked all the references, Adam.

Lesley Jackson's information is all correct. Elizabeth Harris has confirmed this for me.

As far as Miller's guides are concerned, they are only ever published as guides, and this should be remembered every time they are critisised!

Since Mark Hill has been doing the book on Michael Harris and his legacy to glassmaking, he has had access to information previously unavailable.

In fact for the last few years, Lesley Jackson has been the only soure of information, and everything else has just been lifted straight out of LJ. As there are no pictures of Mdina in LJ, there has been speculation about what exactly is what. :roll:

Personally, I don't think there ever were really hard and fast rules, LJ says the fish vases produced at Mdina were "flat or faceted and contained richly coloured glass in a thick clear casing." ...and later, with ref. to IoWSG.... "Lollipops (smaller versions of Fish vases)..".

Fish vases were called so because of their resemblence to Manta Rays, when viewed from above.

The picture in Miller's guide 2004 p.272, with the 2 bubbles like eyes, is a vase I would describe as a lollipop. The two bubbles are just a fluke, part of the individual charm of this vase. I have a vase in this design, there is just one bubble, stretched across the centre.

My own convention is to call the ones with strapping between casing applied to both side of the vase, that does not quite join at the top, Fish vases, and the round ones where the casing is complete, Lollipops. This is because I have found big lollipops and wee fishies!

The vase you describe as being spade shaped (Miller's '05) is what I would call a fish or an axehead. (I do use the term axehead). It is the same shape as the one next to the one with the 2 bubbles in '04, but with a different pattern of enamels inside.

Where I am confused is with reference to the multicoloured one on p. 272, (Miller's '04) underneath the fish vase, on the left. I have seen these described as fish vases, :? but I would call them lollipops because they are fully cased.

Mark's description of these vases as "axeheads" is one I believe is here to stay. Everybody knows what it means.
The information in the '06 guide is with the added knowledge he has gained through researching his book.

The book is being launched at the next Cambridge Glass Fair, Chilford Hall, Linton on September 24th, '06! ( www.cambridgeglassfair.com )

David555 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 10, 2006, 02:37:39 PM »

Hi Sue

I am looking forward to Mark Hill's book coming out in September. If the Miller 2006 edition section on Mdina was done by him, it makes sense why it is so accurate and informative.

I think this is the way J Miller is going, I know of a few other experts who were brought in as advisers or writers for glass sections. It is for the best. I see it as a price guide but the attributions should be as good as possible.

I understand the whole learning curve thing and I did not mean to sound critical of any individual who has contributed to J Miller Collectables in the past. These books are a big step up from other collectables books

Adam P (sometimes damp) :wink: