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Author Topic: Spanish goblet  (Read 2431 times)

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Offline Ivo

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Re: Spanish goblet
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2013, 11:45:01 AM »
If from La Granja de San Ildefonso then the foot should be folded under and the stem hollow. The date would be circa 1775, according to "Ispankoe Steklo b Sobranni Zrmitazha" (Aurora Leningrad 1970). I did see similar items to this one in the Escorial, and in an antique dealer in Barajas airport - but it will be tricky to attribute with certainty.  Similar items - engraved and gilded - were made in France (Le Creuset) and in Ireland - and we haven't even touched Bohemia or Venice....

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Offline oldglassman

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Re: Spanish goblet
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2013, 12:23:52 PM »
HI,
           Hi ,
   
 " If from La Granja de San Ildefonso then the foot should be folded under and the stem hollow.",
sorry but I cant agree, the folded under foot and hollow stem was used widely throughout Europe and I don't see how it can be a primary factor when trying to attribute anything to anywhere.I am also unaware of anything like this being made in this form and style originating from ireland in the 18thc  so any available source material would be very much welcome.

"  and we haven't even touched Bohemia"  , I think we have , above.

cheers ,
 Peter.

       

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Offline Ivo

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Re: Spanish goblet
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2013, 03:14:53 PM »
the only goblet in the 1970 Hermitage exhibition had a hollow stem and a folded foot.  Better?

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Offline flying free

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Re: Spanish goblet
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2013, 04:50:56 PM »
In Das Bohmische Glas Band II page 210 there is a night flask and beaker in the same gilded design as Peter's glass
'Vermutlich Morchenstern, um 1840'
which I believe translates as 'Suspected Morchenstern c.1840'

the flask and beaker are faceted but the beaker does not have the inset rim like OP's glass, the facets run to the top and it's finished as far as I can see, as Peter's glass is.

Info here including a small paragraph on the glass industry in SMRŽOVKA:
http://www.smrzovka.cz/en/vismo/dokumenty2.asp?id_org=100709&id=1002&p1=1010

'After 1848 next boom of industry came here. It was mainly traditional glass industry, which had the biggest share in the development of Smržovka. Extensive forests provided wood that was needed in large quantities for the glass works as a fuel and as raw material for the potash production.
The production was focused mainly on glass pearls and beads, and the grinding of glass (first report about glass grindery dates to 1753). The glass works produced hyalite glass, painted glass, glass jewellery, chandeliers. There was even a factory where different types of accessories were compiled. Around 1848 total number of 14 glass crimpers, 40 blowers, 1579 glass cutters were in this area, also gilders and other specialists were employed there. 1923 people worked in chandelier workshop. Fifty-six traders dealt with a remote trade.
'

Das Bohmische Glas Band II page 210 also references page 138 in Felice Mehlman's The Illustrated Guide to Glass where there is a ruby stoppered jug, with facet cuts and what appears to be the same gilded pattern (very worn). Estimated at c.1840-1850
And another piece in Pazaurek/Phillippovich.
The caption goes on to say
translated via google
'Alle diese Gefäße stammen aus der Zeit um 1840 und konnten in einer Desfours-glashutte auf der Herrschaft Morchenstern entstanden sein'
All of these vessels are from around 1840 and was in a Desfours-glashutte on the rule Morchenstern have originated.

m

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Offline Ivo

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Re: Spanish goblet
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2013, 06:37:20 PM »
... and could have originated....

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Offline flying free

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Re: Spanish goblet
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2013, 06:41:45 PM »
thanks Ivo :)
it's a real pain not knowing exactly the 'tone' or meaning of some of the words.  I've been trying to read translations of Walter Spiegl articles and I have to concentrate really hard to get the right meaning of phrases.

So...  'could have originated at Morchenstern c.1840'
m

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Offline oldglassman

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Re: Spanish goblet
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2013, 07:46:39 PM »
Hi ,
            Interesting link to the  SMRŽOVKA glass factory , though i think trying to narrow the OP goblet to 1 particular place would be difficult also you will find that  the type of decoration being referred to was used for a very long time and covered both the 18th and 19th c , in the late 19th c Lobymeyr of Vienna produced glass in the" Silesian Style" with the same type of  decoration ,Meyers Neffe is another candidate for late 19th c resurrections , I still feel the OP goblet is as I first thought 18thc ,second half , mid was probably a little restricting. ( the one going under the hammer at the moment though I think could be a later 19thc one !!!!   ;)  )


cheers ,
                   Peter

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Offline Antwerp1954

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Re: Spanish goblet
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2013, 07:59:41 PM »
I've now got lost! OP - means? Which one is going under the hammer and where?

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Offline oldglassman

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Re: Spanish goblet
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2013, 08:02:31 PM »
HI ,
               O P  original post.
     eBay just sold .

cheers ,
                Peter.

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Offline flying free

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Re: Spanish goblet
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2013, 08:14:32 PM »
Peter that's interesting.  When you say ' that  the type of decoration being referred to', I'm trying to be cautious but on the night flask in Das Bohmische Glas, not only the gilding but the actual design all over certainly appears to be exactly the same as your goblet  :-\
m

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