Topic: Old bonnet drinking glass? help please.

[brucebanner]

Hello can anyone help me with this i'm not sure what it's for, how old it is, where it was made, it has the most bits/seeds in any glass i have come across, wear to the base a snapped pontil and nice ring to it.

It's three inches in height, 2 1/2 inches across the rim and 2 1/4 inches across the base. regards Chris.

[oldglassman]

HI ,
           Your description is spot on ,a bonnet glass or sometimes called a dessert glass
2nd 1/2 of the 18th c and I would imagine lead,they also come with all forms of moulding to the bowls and feet and like yours sometimes engraved, I have an example with Lynn rings,were made ? who knows almost anywhere in the UK I expect , Lynn glass is supposed to have come from King Lynn though solid evidence does not exist for a glass house there,so maybe Norwich which is recorded as having glassmaking in the 18th c . but for all the others I think it would be impossible to nail down any glass house in particular

   cheers ,
                 Peter

[brucebanner]

That's incredible to think it's that old with no damage, i'm speechless Pete.

[Antwerp1954]

Where did you find it?

[brucebanner]

Local antique shop this one, cost me ten quid, there are a lot of old glasses in there but i'm finding it a nightmare to figure out whats old, Edwardian, reproduction, there are some beautiful Victorian coloured air twists in there, i never pay more than that for anything really, unless i get carried away on Ebay, i picked four old glasses up for a pound a couple of months ago in a second hand shop, along with a badly damaged vase i think there all Georgian i give two away to my mates, and kept these two, for some reason my camera does not show how big the bases on these are. The first is  5 1/4 inches in height 2 3/8ths across the rim and 2 3/4 inches across the base and the second 5 1/4 inches in height 2 3/4 inches across the rim and base. Generally i find things in car boots, charity shops, jumble sales are what they are.

[Paul S.]

hello Chris  -  obviously we must start following you around.            Might be an idea if these last two are moved to a separate post  -  they are - or are intended to look like - mid to late C18 ales/dwarf ales.       Can see what appears to be a folded foot, but not sure of some other details which would confirm period.

Coming back to the bonnet glasses  -  hope you don't mind if I add pix of one or two of my own  -  nowhere near as rare as Peter's Lynn rings example, but shows some of the variety on what is a quite variable item of C18/early C19 table glass.       It's just possible that the example with the type of vesica engraving (the oval cartouche with cross-hatching) might be Irish  -  there is a very similar piece in Phelps Warren.            These pieces are all lead glass.
I had thought that the qualification for a bonnet was that it had to be double ogee (pan topped above a cup shape), but according to Bickerton that seems not to be the case - he shows an example exactly like my final picture  -  which lacks the incurved rim and double ogee shape, and still uses the name bonnet.              I had it down as simply a jelly from ca. 1800.

On the subject of jelly/desert type glasses  -  and ref. our chat about Hogarth the other day  -  there's a humorous cartoon (from Gillray) mocking up a late Georgian military habit, called Hero's Recruiting at Kelsey's.              Worth a look on the internet, and reminds my of a possible Black Adder scene.           I wonder if Peter's tv programme includes any Gillray and/or Rowlandson material

[oldglassman]

Hi,
              "  Hero's Recruiting at Kelsey's. "

 With the jelly, or more likely syllabub being presented on a tazza very similar to this 1 which I would date much earlier than the date of the cartoon suggesting a long time in service I think .

 cheers ,
           Peter.

[brucebanner]

You have some real beauties Paul, i love anything of great age, ive got a lot of Georgian books well about 50 because i like the smell of them. My mates reckon i should live in a museum. I cover a fair few miles to pick these bit's up. The Karlin Rushbrooke piece i listed yesterday, to think that was made at the start of that mans career 43 years ago and he still has a passion for making glass, and to think i would not have known that unless someone here had put me straight. You keep posting them i love looking at genuine pieces it helps me no end, and i bet everyone else who reads the posts too, in fact slightly off track i have spent the last hour reading all the Made in China posts what an eye opener, you and Pete have some great looking glass, regards Chris.

[Paul S.]

would never put myself remotely in Peter's category - he has some of the best glass in private hands in the country I'd suggest.

Don't forget to ask the Mods. to move those two ales, otherwise different subjects within might well confuse the thread (and us)  -  and if you can, try photographing your clear glass against a darker background - it's possible this might provide better contrast.        Keep an eye out for these ales with propeller/winged/pinched knops  -  very desireable.

Peter's comment about the differing dates of the cartoon and his tazza (I prefer salver or stand - I thouht that a tazza was Italian for a sort of drinking dish/cup) - are correct.        In the Gillray illustration - which carries the date 1797 -  this style of high domed foot and bobbin-knopped salver being held by 'Mrs. Kelsey' is believed to have a date range c. 1725 - 60 (manufactured), so definitely pre-date the cartoon.       Bearing in mind the evolution of shapes etc. - particulartly the lowering of the dome of the foot as the pontil scar starts to be removed, I don't see this design still being made at the time Mrs. Kelsey was selling her wares in 1797  -  my personal opinion is that it may well have been half a century old even then.             

Never ceases to amaze me how Gillray and Rowlandson got away with the degree of audacity in the their cartoons  -  a lot of which contained very adult content and lampooning of royalty like you can't imagine - well worth a look if you get the chance  -  but you need to be over 18

Two books of real use here are..........    E. Barrington Haynes - 'Glass Through the Ages' (paperback)  -  and Prefessor Keith Kelsall 'Glass in 18th Century England - The Footed Salver'. 

[brucebanner]

Ok i'll try and get a better background and repost them later tonight when i get back from work, seperate to this, i have the second book will get the first, there should be a page for research material/books/ advice on this site unless there already is and i have missed it, and then i'm going to look a complete idiot. I read a good book last night called"Decorative Victorian Glass" by Cyril Manley, that man had one hell of a collection of glass, good for research and pretty cheap on Amazon used books at the minute, regards Chris.