Topic: Stevens and Williams Alabaster

[flying free]

yes it does.  I'm wondering where the vase is that CH references in that book.
The book says the mark was found on a slender green alabaster vase with a white alabaster foot, in the Broadfield House Collections.  I couldn't find anything similar searching the collection online. 
m

[brucebanner]

Well my vase has no wear around the upper rim, Keith is right it's a wonder there still together, with out the lid it looks like a vase, like David said a while ago on a S&W hyacinth I put on here that should of had a lozenge mark, after a certain time limit they don't need to be put on, then a lot of things are only signed if there firsts, take into account there 140 odd years old now and glass they reduce in number and  rarety and finding information on some pieces is impossible.

[flying free]

Well, I suppose I think it might be that the vase referred to in the early CH British Glass 1800-1914 book as having that mark,  is a Stevens and Williams alabaster range vase (of which I believe there are two tall slender examples in Manley's Victorian Decorative Glass and the range is made in green and white) and I think that range launched in 1916.  I wonder if that is why the vase isn't included in his early book but is in the later book.  So I think it could be that that mark was not found on a Victorian piece of glass but on a piece made between 1916 and the 1930s(green alabaster was made up until the 1930s)?

Also the Stevens and Williams pattern books are in the Broadfield House collection... I just haven't got time or opportunity unfortunately to go up to the archives to have a look around.  And there are something like 30, 000 patterns  iirc.

 I have a fairly large collection of Stevens and Williams alabaster pieces including four/five very rare pieces and only one or two out of the whole collection are marked with that mark, nearly all have no mark at all.  I think S&W were very sporadic in their marking of any pieces not for any particular reason, just that they didn't bother to mark on a consistent basis.

So I suppose what I'm mooting is that perhaps that mark doesn't belong to a Victorian piece and perhaps your covered pot is later than you think.  Admittedly, the knop is  different to that found on the alabaster covered powder jars and mustard pot I own where the knop has a polished 'pontil' mark on the top of it.

m

[brucebanner]

You could be right, there is a bit of  guess work in Cyril Manleys book, it's a shame because i bet a lot of whats in there is right, i had number 34  it had blue snakes around the bottom half highly decorated and looked Bohemian, it got smashed. In one of the first posts the little green vase number 85 in Cyril Manleys book i found a set of six green one's in a charity chop, i sold four and kept two, now why would anyone buy six vases the same colour which makes me think there for drinking.

[flying free]

I think my post was misunderstood and badly written.  I wasn't referring to errors in Cyril Manley's book.

I was saying that in Charles Hajdamach's British Glass 1800-1914 where he shows that mark and says it is 'on a slender green alabaster vase with white alabaster foot, late 19th century', I think an error might have been made on his dating:

a) He doesn't actually show the vase in that book. But there is a tall slender alabaster with white alabaster foot vase produced by Stevens and Williams as part of their alabaster range  (there are two examples shown in the Manley book and a seller currently has two tall slender vases in other colours for sale in the 'alabaster' range) ... and that range did come in green and white as we know.

b) Hajdamach says in his second book 'self-coloured glass, as it is often known in the factories, was introduced by Stevens and Willliams in the form of their 'alabaster' range as early as 1916 ....'

So I think it is possible that the mark that CH refers to 'might' have appeared on a tall green and white slender 'alabaster' range vase from S&W. 

And since the 'alabaster' range was introduced in 1916 that would mean that mark was on a 1916 or later vase ... not a late Victorian one.

Yes, it's possible those little 'vases' might have been 'beakers'.  On the other hand, they are very small (narrow at top) for drinking out of, and it is possible that they were supplied to shops in 'batches' so it's possible that a 'batch' or part of a batch of 'vases' , were unsold or sold on when a shop closed I guess.

Interestingly, I often see that mark on the pale blue and white versions of S & W 'alabaster' range pieces (and my pale blue one is marked).  And I've seen it marked on two pieces of the  cinnamon versions as yours is.  I sometimes wonder if it means anything in terms of when the colours were introduced, or perhaps in the method of making, or perhaps in terms of date made.



m

[brucebanner]

I will keep my eye out for others, im 75% sure I have that mark on something other than alabaster, I'm in the process of sorting stuff out so if I come across it I'll put it on here.

[KevinH]

Regardiing M's post #44, for anyone trying to locate the examples of S&W alabaster in the 1988 edition of the Manley book, please note that there is an indexing error.

The S&W items (nos 84 to 90) are all shown on page 64 with text on page 65 - but the index entry for "alabaster" does not refer to those pages, only the pages for Richardson items!

[flying free]

I have a question -

Hajdamach says in his second book 'Self-coloured glass, as it is often known in the factories, was introduced by Stevens and Willliams in the form of their 'alabaster' range as early as 1916 .  ...'

I'm curious.  Does this mean that glass coloured in the batch  is 'self coloured' glass ? as opposed to a clear gather being cased in a thin layer of coloured glass to create the 'perceived' coloured glass item.

I assume it does mean that.

In which case, does his sentence mean that the 'alabaster' range was self-coloured and therefore he is simply pointing this out and then saying that the (self-coloured) 'alabaster' range was introduced as early as 1916. 
Or does it mean that 'self-coloured' glass was first introduced in 1916 and as it happened it was in the form of their 'alabaster' range?

m

[Lustrousstone]

I think it's a badly written sentence, as self-coloured glass has been around much longer - you only have to read the old recipes...

[flying free]

yes, and I had presumed their cameo, although cased glass, had a base glass of self coloured glass.

I was just wondering if there are any examples of Stevens and Williams 'self-coloured' glass made before this?  I seem to come across a lot of information on cup casing and flashing and examples of how they flashed even goblets etc.

m