Topic: Clear Pressed Glass Tankard Identification

[davwd1]

Can anyone throw any light on the glass tankard?  It stands 13.5cms tall and holds just over a pint, although significantly, less than a ltr. The tankard is owned by a family in Jersey.
One either side of the handle are two identical panels, each containing a pair of crossed flags, with each flag carrying a crescent and five pointed star. The star and crescent are repeated at the top of each panel. Opposite the handle is a third panel again carrying a large crescent and star and a very proud standing lion. The tankard has a star base. It looks as though it is press moulded although the only signs of mould lines are along the handle. There are several surface cracks on the glass; expansion and contraction during manufacture?
The symbolism may represent the Crimean War, but this would make it a very early commemorative I believe.  The tankard has a number of signs of early English
pressed glass from the North East or Manchester, but this is where I'm looking for some help please.

[Paul S.]

Hello and welcome to the GMB

this sounds interesting, and there may well be people here who might be able to help, but.................your pix aren't big enough - sorry, can you enlarge please.

Unsure of what you meant by  "The tankard has a number of signs of early English pressed glass from the North East or Manchester".........sorry if I'm being a little dense on this - hope you will clarify please.

[davwd1]

Paul, See if the two attached photographs give any better definition.
I think the look and feel of the tankard is similar to a number earlier pressed glass pieces I've seen, meaning 1) several surface cracks and straw marks, 2) not the most crisp of moulds, 3)the weight of the piece is quite heavy compared to other similar sized items.
Tankards are not as familiar as goblets and I'm struggling to find any threads which may help with the I/D. There are no makers marks or lozenge.
 

[Paul S.]

yes, that's vastly better, thanks.

Would seem flags with crescent and star like this are very thin on the ground - Turkey was certainly one, and it's possible that your comments about the Crimea might have a connection, since the location of the conflict was in that area and involved that country.        But I'm really not sure, and could be wrong completely.           Could be that the lion might represent John Bull flexing his muscles in alliance with the 'turkey' (believe there may have been some sort of cartoon related matter at the time showing us as a lion).

Your comments about the defects caused by pressing are fairly normal - especially for older pieces, although the staw marks I believe are a myth.........the staw would get burned very quickly            Commemorative pieces - in pressed glass - become more common after the late 1860's, and the only earlier example I can see at a quick glance is a Sowerby handled mug with moulded decoration of the Newcastle High Level Bridge c. 1852.

You could be right about cut pieces providing more evidence of early commemoration..........Nelson and the opening of the Sunderland Bridge being well known examples (on rummers).

We have people here who are good at C19 pressed glass, so hope they will see your post and might have the answer.

[Ivo]

The surface marks are caused by a temperature difference between hot glass and a not-so-hot mould, a sign of early press glass indeed - so probably between 1835 and 1860. The crescent is not a Turkish or Pakistani one, it could be Aceh, Cashmere or French North African. I would think it is a campaign souvenir - just don't ask me which campaign.

[Paul S.]

if you remain without a more positive conclusion after some time, you may wish to consider sending your (better) pix to either the Victoria & Albert museum (attention of glass & ceramics dept.) in London, or Broadfield House Glass Museum, Stourbridge, West Midlands.
Can't guarantee they'll have the answer, but always possible.

[agincourt17]

The Crimean war was fought between October 1853 and February 1856 on the Crimean peninsula in Ukraine between Russia and the allied forces of France, Britain, the Ottoman Empire and the Kingdom of Sardinia.

There were certainly Crimean War commemorative transfer printed china pieces produced in the north-east of England. The main symbols found on them are: flags of the various allied nations, the Star and Crescent (representing the Ottoman Empire), the British lion, and the French eagle.

The symbolism of the decoration on the glass tankard  is, therefore, appropriate for a Crimean War commemorative (putting a possible  date at 1853 to 1856ish) and the tankard has the appearance of a Victorian commemorative piece.

Even if not commemorative of the Crimean War conflict per se, there were a whole series of Anglo-Ottoman alliances from the 1830s (brokered by Palmerston) right through until the early 1880s (perhaps matching the dual symbols of just the British lion and the Ottoman star and crescent) that might have been thought worthy of commemoration.

Pressed glass production had spread from America to Europe by the 1830s, and was well established in Britain and France by the 1840s. There are well documented commemorative glass pieces celebrating Queen Victoria’s accession in 1837 and Prince Albert’s death in 1861, so British or French pressed glass commemoratives of the Crimean period are perfectly feasible.

Early British-themed pressed glass commemoratives tend to be comparatively crude, with an easily-pressed shape (a plate or a dish for example), and some kind of easily-moulded profile or text, rather than the sophisticated shape and elaborate relief-moulded symbolism of this tankard, though Roy Jones shows a sophisticated, relief-moulded tankard commemorating the opening of the High Level Bridge, Newcastle-on-Tyne in 1850 that is “though most likely to have been made by Sowerby in the 1850s” at
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,53261.0.html

If your tankard is, indeed, British and Victorian, then I think that the most likely manufacturer in that case would be one of the north-eastern British glass works, but I known of nothing with the same symbolism from the area at that time.

As the tankard is owned by a family in Jersey, perhaps a French connection might be worth pursuing. Hajdamach ( page 14, “British Pressed Glass 1840-1914”) states that even “in the early 1840s, the French glass forms of Baccarat and Saint Louis were making crisply modelled tableware in imitation of American pressed lacy patterns”.


Fred.

[Jaap]

I read the posting about this tankard with much interest. I think Crimean war etc are all possible but I will pose an alternative explanation. I recently acquired two of these tankards, one identical to the one in this posting, the other with the various parts in relief etched in some way. I acquired both in France, where this tankard seems to be more common; e.g., I found an image of one that seems to be made of very light green glass.

I am not a glass collector but acquired these because they fit with my collection of European ceramics made for the Islamic market between ca. 1850 and 1940. Similar designs with crescent and star, lion, and flags can be found on these type of ceramics made for export to the Islamic market, and in my opinion it is quite likely that these were made for this market whether it was Turkey or North Africa (Morocco).

I have seen some commemorative ceramics including the crescent etc. referencing the Crimean war or WWI but these are different from what you see on this tankard in that it doesn't reference any of the other parties involved, whether England, Russia, France, Germany etc. E.g., I recently saw a German made porcelain plate with the heads of state and flags of the Ax powers, incl. Turkey and Germany, clearly around WWI and made for the European market. The lion could point to Morocco, where the Atlas lion is a known symbol.

The fact that these tankards are more common in France points to manufacture there. Wares exported from France to its colonies in N. Africa have returned to France in numbers, presumably with the immigrants from the former colonies and the many French returning to the homeland after the colonies became independent. What would have been drunk form these tankards other than beer I don't know, since beer as an alcoholic beverage was not allowed. It is possible that other beverages were drunk from tankards like these, the tankard as a shape has been around in Turkey for centuries. 

If I had to put a date on this tankard, I would say around 1900, not much earlier or later, but again, I am not an expert on glass so there might be reasons to date this differently based on the characteristics of the glass itself.

So far for my thoughts. Any comments are very welcome as I am trying to find out more about these tankards myself.