Topic: Mystery Richardson Patent Measure

[Barmy]

I don't have access to either Thompson or the Blue Book.  I would love to see pix of the original drawings.  I have a couple of non-sealed measures that could be using the centre design, but Brooks book shows only rough composites.  My measures have a little dimple cut between the vertical cuts on the bulbous base. I have yet to find a B. of T. number on any of my measures.

 

[Paul S.]

attached are four pix ............. one each for Rd. Nos. 110942 and 110943 - both Registered on 20th August 1857, and two pix for Rd. 237141 which was Registered on 14th December 1869.
I've added a close-up pic of the neck for Rd. 237141 just to show that the lead seal used on the original drawing submitted for this particular design included the motif for the city of Glasgow - which is what you'd expect to see on the seal for 1869  -  this motif was dropped in 1879 when the monarch's initial plus Verification Nos. were adopted.        If you can't see the details on the seal, it does in fact show a tree with a bird on top, a bell hanging from a branch, and a salmon with a ring in its mouth.    According to Brian Brooks, Glasgow adopted this motif in 1866.

Coming back to Brooks hand drawn illustrations of the three designs we've already mentioned, it does appear that his comments (page 22) wrongly date two of these designs.     His booklet mentions that "Three designs were registered by the Glasgow firm of James Couper & Sons in 1869/1870 (see Note 3)".
In fact two of these - namely 110942 and 43 were both Registered on 20th August 1857 - some few years earlier than he states.

It's worth also commenting on the most recent of these designs (Rd. 237141) - the only measure with the lead seal.    Examples of this design with a tree/bird/salmon on the seal can be dated to between 1870 when the patent came into effect, and 1879 when the tree was dropped in favour of the Verification Nos.
There were no lead seals in use prior to 1870.

It's odd that no examples of these Richardson measures appear to show any of these three Rd. Nos. - perhaps one might turn up some day.

Hope these pix of of some interest.

[Barmy]

The pictures are incredible...!!!!!  I love them.   :=)    Where are they from?   Was most commercial glass registered?  When did the registration start?  How was the catalogue sequenced?  Is it possible to find entries for Couper and Son?  Or is it sequential?  Knowing the stamp on my Mystery Measure is ER,  could  a search starting a 1900 forward be possible?  Would a copy of the registration/drawing be available in Canada somewhere? I'm just a newbie when it comes to searching out something like this.

Which brings me back to my Mystery Measure.  I tried to contact Mrs. J. Hayhurst who is mentioned in Brian Brooks book.  I haven't got a reply yet.  I was hoping she may be able to shed some light on this. 

Thanks for finding the registration drawing.  I really appreciate it.

[Paul S.]

hello Barry  -  regret to say that images of British Board of Trade design Registrations are available only from The National Archives in London.          I believe that researchers employed by this facility will carry out investigations for you, but this is expensive.

However, there are one or two published books which provide a list of those numbers allocated to glass (CLASS III), and these books include other details such as........date of Registration, name of manufacturer/registrant.
The absence of an image does lessen the usefulness of such information, but if you have just the occasional request, I'm sure we can probably assist with a picture.
Don't think that your mystery seal will be of any help in relation to these Board of Trade Registered designs, and regret to say you won't find this information in Canada.
Using one of the books which lists these Registered Nos., you could scan through for James Couper & Sons, but regret I've no idea if other numbers occur, for them, additional to those three we've discussed above.

Registration (in the U.K.) started about 1842, and continued in one form or another, I think, until more or less the end of the C20.      We have others here who are far more knowledgeable on the history of Registrations of British pressed glass, and they may wish to add their thoughts here.
Other countries had similar systems I believe, but the numbers we're discussing in this thread refer to glass made within the U.K. (there are exceptions I believe where some Continental made pieces imported into the U.K. - are Registered in the U.K. to a British based Registrant).

Of the Books referred to, you may find the following of most use (covering the Victorian period almost entirely) .........

'English Pressed Glass 1830 - 1900' - Raymond Slack - pub. 1987

'The Identification of English Pressed Glass  - 1842 to 1908  -  Jenny Thompson (plus the Supplement).

and following on from those two is......

'The Glass Association - Registration Numbers 1908 - 1945 (referred to usually as 'The Blue Book) - because it's blue

Unfortunately, specialist books like these are often expensive - and occasionally out of print, so be prepared for disappointment.

You didn't mention contacting Brian Brooks (is he no longer with us??)  -  hope you do get a reply from Jeanette Hayhurst.
                                                     

[Barmy]

Mr Brooks decanter and measure collection was auctioned August 2012.  I don't know if he is still alive or not.  I haven't been successful in my search for him.  I purchased a couple of measures from Jeanette Hayhurst a couple of years ago that appeared in Mr. Brooks book when she had a shop in London.  She has since moved to Tetbury and in a couple of correspondence since my purchase I haven't got a response from her.

[Paul S.]

unfortunately, interest in these measures seems always to have been at a low level.       Andy McConnell's decanter book gives them scant mention, and from memory Charles Hajdamach's book on C19 glass doesn't include them, and I can't think off-hand of any other books worth trying.

Other sources of potential help within the U.K. are Broadfield House Glass Museum or the glass and ceramics department at the Victoria & Albert Museum.       Could also try The Glass Association to see if anyone there is current researching these things.
Don't know if any of the large breweries might have a museum that would cover this sort of thing  -  anyway best of luck, and if you crack it so to speak do let us know.

[Barmy]

I have found Miniature Decanters and Whisky Measures by Stephen Perry the only other reference besides Brian Brooks book.

I don't understand why there isn't more interest in them.  I feel that the urbanization through the industrial ages have made the pub a central part of the common person's life.  And individual decanters and measures a part of that.

Thank you for conversing with my.  I really appreciate it.

Barry

[Barmy]

PS I'll post something if I solve my mystery