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Author Topic: Glass Secessionism  (Read 570 times)

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Offline Frank

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Glass Secessionism
« on: August 05, 2014, 01:27:28 PM »
A Facebook group glasssecessionism is busily debating the topic. Mostly artists, I am wondering what our collecting community think of this issue.

My own views tend to be a little cynical... particularly the other day when someone suggested the inclusion of plastics.

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Offline Ivo

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Re: Glass Secessionism
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2014, 01:41:12 PM »
We usually call it Art Nouveau - secessionism is a term which refers to Austria and Germany only. If you're discussing a style, be sure to include metalwork, furniture, architecture and plastics as well.

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Offline Ohio

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Re: Glass Secessionism
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2014, 02:07:04 PM »
Well you already have discussions on plastics (chemical types) & an example of plastics & other non-glass materials on the page as well as a pair of decidedly Deco spaceships so what I suggest is a renaming of the group to simply "secessionism". I have to say its a case of the horse already out of the barn. Pretty freewheeling group discussion but has a possibility of being a very inspirational venue for artists which isn't a bad thing at all. 

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Offline Mike M

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Re: Glass Secessionism
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2014, 02:29:52 PM »
Secessionism was, I always thought, just the act of removing one-selves from some commonly held view of the establishment. Often wanting to look forward rather than backward.

The Austrian or Vienna Secession was a bunch of (brilliant) artists wanting to move away from the traditional views of the then 'Artists in power'- those that controlled the presentation/gallery spaces in Vienna at the time and wanted things traditionally styled.  -I always thought it is a big shame people think this movement is the same as Art Nouveau (similar period/ and a few similar motifs but quite quite different) -but even the Viennese books on Secessionism -are translated as Art Nouveau.

There were many other Secessionist Movements a bit of one in the UK and a notable one in Hungary -I think there were Scandinavian ones too.

So assuming this group is trying to escape from what they see as some commonly held establishment view of modern glass making then its a good name and good luck to them!

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Offline Mike M

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Re: Glass Secessionism
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2014, 02:33:06 PM »
To quote a well known on-line source:

The first secession from the official politics occurred in France, when, in 1890, the "Salon au Champs-de-Mars" was established, headed by Meissonnier and Puvis de Chavannes. In the years following artists in various European countries took up this impulse, primarily in Germany, Austria–Hungary, and Belgium, which 'seceded' from traditional art movements and embraced progressive styles. The first secession outside France formed in Munich in 1892, followed by the Vienna Secession formed 5 years later in 1897.

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Glass Secessionism
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2014, 03:37:42 PM »
my input - which is probably doubling up on what everyone else is saying. :)      Bet you wouldn't get the same response if the subject was the 'gothic period' or pre-raphaelites.       Perhaps we might do another one on art deco.

If someone says 'art nouveau', then I have some idea of where I am, date wise - but I think the end date of the style, for me, is a little unclear.        Perhaps a period that lasted from c. 1885 to somewhere around WW I. ?? 
In Italy, apparently, it was 'liberty' - in France and Belgium it was 'art nouveau' - in Germany it seems  'Jugendstil'  -  but it may have been only middle Europe that used the word Secession.
I'm never really sure that the U.K. originated it's own style of nouveau  -  the little we had we probably stole from Paris  -  since that was where all the decadence appeared to be  - sinuous naked women and everything with a curve, although if you look at William Blake's work you can see a hint of the beginnings of the flowing lines of nouveau in his art.      But Beardsley is pure erotic nouveau.
There is a distinct feeling that France was responsible for the whole of this 'new age art'.

If you believe the books then the British champions of arts and crafts and the Glasgow style disliked Continental art nouveau, since it didn't, so they said, revere the aesthetics of Morris and his pals who were bananas about the honesty of hand made medieval workmanship.

During the same period the graphic arts had 'symbolism' - the equivalent of nouveau on canvass - favourite of mine - big stuff with all that repression and sex simmering below the surface. ;D   

The British were too reserved for what they probably saw as degenerate Continentals  -  absinthe and Egon Schiele, and in the 1890's the U.K. still had a monarch in black and mourning and who encouraged traditional art.

An image such as Klimt's 'The Kiss' probably epitomizes best what most of us think of as 'secessionism' art, and the organically sensual glass designs of Daum, Galle or early Lalique likewise represent some of the best of 'art nouveau' - and don't forget the ironwork at the entrances to the Paris Metro.
If the discussion was confined to glass, then I think the U.K. would struggle to compete - we just weren't in the same league as the Continent of Europe.
Ivo is correct in saying metalwork, architecture and furniture, but I'm never sure about adding plastic - did they have plastic then??     Like Frank I'd prefer to shove this into the deco style.

There seems no doubt that Continental Europe was vastly better off in all of the decorative arts than the U.K., or the States  -  and they also invented that other big style that succeeded it - deco.

Sorry this has wandered off from glass - which I've just realized was probably where it was intended to be confined - please delete if it's too much off-topic. :)

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Offline Ohio

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Re: Glass Secessionism
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2014, 05:22:20 PM »
"There seems no doubt that Continental Europe was vastly better off in all of the decorative arts than the U.K., or the States".

Yes Paul but we were just lights out when it came to copying.  ;) 

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Offline aa

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Re: Glass Secessionism
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2014, 08:35:05 PM »
Secessionism was, I always thought, just the act of removing one-selves from some commonly held view of the establishment. Often wanting to look forward rather than backward.

The Austrian or Vienna Secession was a bunch of (brilliant) artists wanting to move away from the traditional views of the then 'Artists in power'- those that controlled the presentation/gallery spaces in Vienna at the time and wanted things traditionally styled.  -I always thought it is a big shame people think this movement is the same as Art Nouveau (similar period/ and a few similar motifs but quite quite different) -but even the Viennese books on Secessionism -are translated as Art Nouveau.

There were many other Secessionist Movements a bit of one in the UK and a notable one in Hungary -I think there were Scandinavian ones too.

So assuming this group is trying to escape from what they see as some commonly held establishment view of modern glass making then its a good name and good luck to them!

I think Mike is pretty close to the mark!

Here is the link https://www.facebook.com/groups/glasssecessionism/561874303935643/?notif_t=group_activity


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